MDOT presents The Extra Mile Podcast.

(Paul) Welcome into another edition of The Extra Mile podcast presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I’m MDOT Media Manager Paul Katool and as always, I’m joined in by my Co-host Will Craft. He handles government and constituent affairs here for the agency. And the last time you saw us we wrapped up 15 episodes in 15 weeks on the legislative session. Hopefully we were able to give everyone kind of a good play-by-pay of what was going on with transportation infrastructure during the session and kind of how that’s going to impact us going forward.

Uh, well we’re back. We’re excited to be back. I think you’ll agree we’ve got just a great slate of guests coming up. So, we’re very excited about that and no better way to get out of the legislative session and move forward than to talk to former MDOT Commissioner Dick Hall. We are so appreciative of you being here with us today, Commissioner Hall.

(Dick Hall) Glad to be here. Appreciate being invited.

(Paul) Absolutely. So, we’ll give you a little bit of information on Commissioner Hall and we’ll let him talk a little more on that. So, Commissioner Hall was appointed central transportation commissioner by Governor Kirk Fordice in April of 1999 and he served as commissioner until his retirement in 2020. He is the longest serving transportation commissioner in MDOT history. And he also served 24 years in the Mississippi legislature prior coming to MDOT. So, would you like to speak on your career kind of going from uh you know the legislature and into MDOT.

(Dick Hall) Well, it’s different.

(Paul) Yes, sir.

(Dick Hall) But it actually did give me a good background to come to the department of transportation. But I guess and I chaired the appropriations committee in this right in the state senate and so I got very involved in MDOT’s business even when I was there. But the thing about the legislative process, it always frustrated me a little bit. You introduce a bill, and you maybe get it passed and become signed by the governor becomes law. And you think when you had that idea you thought it was going to play out like this and it doesn’t play out that way sometimes. And that’s very frustrating. You sometimes don’t see a big thing from the start to the finish. So, when I was appointed commissioner of transportation I was tickled to death because I was coming somewhere where you can actually start something and follow it through to the end completion and maybe even cut a ribbon.

(Will) That’s right.

(Dick Hall) And it in my personal background, my business background was construction. So, I felt very comfortable at MDOT. And I’ve got speaking of MDOT, I’ve got to tell this.
Back when I was in the legislature, I was down in Simpson County D’Lo one day for a little republican gathering sponsored by the Simpson County Republican Party.

(Will) God’s country.

(Dick Hall) And the chair of it was some 18-year-old kid by the name of Brad White. And that day although I would say that I was very impressed with Brad. And I made a mental note. I said I’m gonna remember this young man and I’m gonna probably have some contact with him sometime in the future. So, when I got this job as commissioner of transportation of course I had an incumbent assistant and that worked out for quite a while. But after a while I did have a need for an assistant. So, I called Brad who was a little older by then and I want him to come to work for me and he said, “No. I’m working for another commissioner a public works, a public service commissioner.”

(Will) That’s right.

(Dick Hall) Well anyway it wasn’t too long after that he called me back and said, “Commissioner, is that job still open? My commissioner got beat.” So, anyway Brad came to work for me. Now little did I know that one day he would actually be director of this agency. But he’s doing a terrific job and I was very pleased that I had some role in his life.

(Paul) Absolutely.

(Will) So during all those years you were here a lot of important projects that went on is there anything that really you just you know that you’re most proud of? Maybe your favorite kind of projects things that happened? Being able to see things from start to finish?

(Dick Hall) I did my 20-something years it was, but we did have some important things happening. But I gotta tell you about a phone call I got one day. I’m sitting in my office and Senator Trent Lott called me. And my secretary came in and said, “I got Trent Lott on the phone for you.” And I said, “Oh. Oh. Okay.” So, I picked up the phone expecting to hear his assistant on there say well you know let me get Trent Lott and now he was on the phone.

And he said, “Commissioner, I got something for you today.” And I said, “What’s that senator?” He said, “ A $100 million dollars.” I said, “You’re kidding.” He said, “No. I’m sending you a $100 million.” And at this time Senator Lott was majority leader of the United States Senate. It shows you a little bit about the influence and power of that position.

(Will) That’s right.

(Dick Hall) And he said a $100 million and I said, “ Well, anything you want me to particularly you want me to do with it?” He said, “Yeah. I want you to go build that bridge over the Mississippi River in Greenville.” And we with that $100 million we forced Arkansas who really wasn’t ready to build that bridge because it would cost them a lot of money to commit to it and we did get it built.

So, that was one as I was saying earlier about the progress of something there was one from the very beginning, I helped locate where the bridge was going to go. We talked about the design of it and the construction of it and we finally cut that ribbon on it. And it gives you a great feeling to be involved in something like that. I just wish that bridge was where more people went over it. Because it’s a beautiful structure besides being a very efficient structure.

But anyway, there were other things we did in metro Jackson. We added lanes I-55 north and south. We added lane side 20. Of course, being a Mississippi State graduate, we got the Highway 25 Starkville four-laned. I thought what if which little priority of mine. But it anyway to help Ole Miss friends we did four-lane Highway 6 from Batesville to Oxford.

(Will) As a Rankin County reservoir resident I very much appreciate the work on twenty-five. It’s still a little bit of a nightmare at the peak traffic times but it’s significantly better.

(Dick Hall) Yeah. Well of course there’s some that we didn’t, we thought there’s always something you didn’t get. And the one probably frustrated me the most was highway forty-nine south. And I gotta tell you one more story if y’ all don’t mind.

(Will) Please.

(Paul) Sure.

(Dick Hall) My secretary came in and said, “ I got a gentleman on the phone who wants to talk to you.” I said, “ You know who?” She didn’t know and she gave me his name. I didn’t know him. I got on the phone, and he said, “Commissioner, you got time to answer a question for me?” And I said, “Well, I’ll sure try.” He said, “Well, I was watching tv last night and they said the sun was gonna burn out in a hundred thousand years. And I want to know how you get through with Highway 49 in the dark?” True story. And I went down there yesterday and we’re still not quite through. But anyway, it is a super project and there’s a lot of reasons for the length of it and it’s wrapping up and it’s a that’s great deal.

(Will) It is looking much better. It’s looking really good out there.

(Paul) It really is. It really is.

(Dick Hall) Well, there’s never enough money to do everything you want to do.

(Paul) Sure.

(Dick Hall) Never. Never. But fortunately, and I think y’ all want to talk about the legislature

(Will) Sure. Yes, sir.

(Dick Hall) But this session legislature certainly did some significant things for us. The $1.4 billion budget to start with they appropriated as best my memory that’s the biggest we’ve ever, I’m still saying we, MDOT has ever received and there were no earmarks. Now if anybody doesn’t know what an earmark is that’s a legislative process for and you’re going you got some got a pile of money and you start with saying well the legislature starts naming what specifically what they want to name it and what they want to spend on any specific project in MDOT’s case. But this year no MDOT’s, I mean no earmarks.

They were leaving it up to the commission and the staff to determine which of the most important projects and where the money should be assigned. And that it was a significant thing for them to do, $44 million dollars extra for maintenance and also an additional $40 million to match federal money.

(Will) That’s right.

(Dick Hall) Because if Washington is sending a chunk of money but you’ve got to have the match for it. And we would have missed it if they had not done that. So, they did. But unfortunately, the one thing they didn’t do was to provide for that long-range funding that we’re always faced with.

(Will) That’s right. And that conversation is taking shape in a couple different forms whether it’s a gas tax or some other you know fee that they’ve come up with but that will definitely especially as electric vehicles start showing up, that will most definitely be a conversation for the upcoming sessions most likely even the next one or the next you know?

(Dick Hall) Well of course I tried 20 years ago to get the gas tax increased. And I’m gonna have to say I told you so because if we had done that, we would now have a lot of these highways built and not only built, we’d have them paid for. But anyway, that was 35 years ago that Mississippi last adjusted the fuel tax. So, it’s a long-range plan of some sorts overdue. But you’re exactly right. It's gone. And other states are looking at this as is Mississippi.

What are the options? What else can you do besides the fuel tax? Now the fuel tax is based on user needs and user pays.

(Will) That’s right.

(Dick Hall) Which I think is the right way to tax something to pay something like that is that the folks out there riding on the highways are the ones paying for it.

(Will) Just happens to be the worst time for gas prices now trying to have that conversation doesn’t help with the cost of it.

(Dick Hall) Well you know that was always the problem, I guess. But you know what I use to remind people Exxon go up 10 cents overnight. You know all we wanted were a few pennies you know? And it wasn’t adjusted for 35 years. So, that’s a long time not to adjust to something. And can you imagine what the construction cost did over the last 35 years? And now you got vehicles getting 25 to 30 miles to the gallon and not in fact you’ve got so many vehicles electric that’s not paying fuel tax at all. But Mississippi does have a charge for the electric. I think it’s a $100 and the hybrids for $70 or something like that.

(Will) That’s right. $75 and a hundred and something right there. That’s right.

(Dick Hall) And I believe it collected a little over a little over $1 million last year. All that took in which obviously, some 30-something states have done something similar to this. Now this all started back when, Oregon was the first one I think I remember. They’ve set up a pilot program for doing vehicle miles travel that you would be charged for the vehicles fee for the miles you drove your vehicle. They have technology now where they could do that. And that would cover people with all vehicles. Anyway, but there’s 30-something states now thinking some type of something. Virginias like I think something similar to Mississippi. Kentucky’s about the same and they’re getting ready to double theirs. But the problem is there’s no PAT solution yet found for it.

(Will) That’s right. Right.

(Dick Hall) But let me can I just jump back to something?

(Will) Of course.

(Paul) Sure.

(Dick Hall) You know I think that I just remembered something that I failed to mention the legislature did. And it may been the most important thing they did and that was adjust the salaries of the MDOT employees. That’s something we struggled with for years and loosing good people just right and left. We used to have 3,200 people and I think now we’ve less than 2,600. And it’s not just of course for years we’ve had the problem you know this is an engineering operation. And getting and keeping qualified engineers were really a problem. But now we got that we got down to where maintenance people, I mean we’re losing maintenance people to local government. And this is I’ve had a long conversation with Brad about this.

Since you guys pulled it off working with the legislature, this is really significant. And I think it’s gonna not only immediately help the pretty core of the employees, but it’s going to keep some employees. And because the ones you keep losing are those that have had a few years’ experience and somebody else would come hire and they’ve learned it at your expense. So, that was a significant think the legislature did.

(Will) On that same note I would even add you know as you’re well aware kind of for the last 10 years we were really focused on just maintaining what we had you know. And somebody who’s I imagine I’m just a communications major but somebody who went through all the effort and academic trials and tribulations to get that engineering degree you know they’re not just overly thrilled to come just repave roads all the time.

That Greenville bridge you mentioned was kind of the last you know, I think I-69 will maybe fit into that category, but you know getting back into some of those big capacity projects so that we have the recruitment tools folks are wanting to come work on those projects, you know? I think that will certainly help as well kind of in partnership with the salaries getting corrected. Maybe we can get them in and keep them, you know?

(Dick Hall) That exactly and that’s exactly what you’ve got to do to have it. And if we ever do get the funding, the long-range funding where it should be, you’ve got to have a staff to do that.

(Will) That’s right.

(Dick Hall) And you can’t have brand new people doing it. You need some experienced people to implement the kind of program that we need to have. You know maintaining our maintenance program. I keep saying ours. It still feels like I’m involved, the maintenance program and the construction program.

(Paul) Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I want to take this in a little bit of a different direction to a couple weeks back. It’s hard to keep track of time these days but we had a ceremony here for you, honoring you and dedicating a tree and that sort of thing. So, what did it mean? It seemed like it was really a who’s who of the Mississippi political world and others coming together to honor you. So, what did that mean to you, Commissioner Hall?

(Dick Hall) It was my it was a whole lot bigger deal than Brad led me on to think it was going to be.

(Will) He’ll do that.

(Dick Hall) I mean all he said was “Well, Commissioner, we’re just going to plant a little tree down there and we want you to show up for it. Not going into both U.S. senators and the former governor and all sorts of the elected statewide elected officials’ mayors, everybody.

(Will) So, he didn’t tell you any of those people were going to be there?

(Dick Hall) Well, I got as it got a little closer, he kind of had to tell me about a few of them. And even all the employees that would be there. And it just and former MDOT employees that I got to see that I hadn’t seen in a long time. So, yeah. It was personally it just I don’t know how to express it right and I’m usually not at a loss for words. But it was a fantastic event and I sincerely appreciate it. My family was all there. They appreciated it. And I appreciate that tree being there.

(Will) Certainly all the speakers had wonderful things to say about you. Lots of high praise but specifically your speech actually stuck out to me personally. Kind of your comments on the tree itself and the planting of it and that conversation you had with your Dad about planting the tree maybe it was your grandad. Would you share that again with us?

(Dick Hall) Yeah. My Dad when my mom and dad were building their final house you know they had in the Jackson area and I was a young man and I was helping my dad plant an oak tree and he as we were doing that I said, “Dad, I don’t understand why you’re planting the oak tree because it’s so slow growing. You’re not going to be able to enjoy the big when it really gets big enough to enjoy. And he turned to me, and I will never forget he said, “Son, somebody’s going to.” And that always stuck in my mind. In fact, to this day, I have Martin Luther’s quotation in my office says, “Even if I knew the world was going to pieces tomorrow, I would still plant my apple tree today. So, that planting of that tree and particularly since it’s an oak tree

(Will) That’s right.

(Dick Hall) Made a tremendous profound effect. I found out that’s what they were going to do and that’s what came to my mind. And it did bring back some great memories with my dad.

(Will) And much like the quote as you mentioned in your speech that day you know similarly with the transportation work, the infrastructure, the planning, the construction work that’s going on now. It’s very similar to that whole ideological black word concept of the tree that you may never get to see it yourself but the generations ahead, right?

(Dick Hal) Right.

(Will) You know the likely the work that

(Dick Hall) I will never see that tree grow at any size height at the real height, but somebody is it’s gonna be there.

(Paul) That is no doubt. So, we’ve got a couple of fun questions for you.

(Will) Oh yeah.

(Paul) We’re gonna add one in and then of course the favorite question. So, tell us about your first car and then maybe your dream car if you could have any car out there. We’re talking transportation. So, let’s do it.

(Dick Hall) Well, I grew up in the fifties and my first car was a 1948 ford. And of course, it was second or third hand and I used to park it right across the street there besides Central High School where I attended.

(Will) That was next door here. Yeah.

(Paul) That’s wild.

(Dick Hall) And during the, I didn’t wander off very far. And during the fifties is when thunderbird came out. And I said, “My! Wow! you know I’d give anything to have one of those things.” Which is an amazing such a wild dream whenever I arrived here today, I drove here in my thunderbird.

(Will) That’s awesome.

(Paul) Nice.

(Dick Hall) Yeah. My wife told me she said, “I’m tired of hearing you talk about it. Go get one.” So, 20 years ago I did.

(Will) My grandmother had a thunder chicken back in the day. We like to call it it was kind of like you said about your first car. It passed through several hands before we got it. So, it wasn’t quite a bird anymore. It was just a thunder chicken and it was hanging on.

(Paul) Well, that’s a good answer.

(Will) That’s exactly right. And to back up a little bit you mentioned Brad and meeting him in D’Lo back as an 18-year-old. You know we see the serious and focused director Brad White all the time but kind of what was he like as a 20-year-old working for you?

(Dick Hall) Well, he was older than that when he finally came to work for me. A few years had passed for him unfortunately for both of us. But Brad just jumped right in and he just an unlocking of the other side of the head in that position. I mean he can get around them. He’s gonna get on first get around the building and meet everybody.

(Will) Oh yeah.

(Dick Hall) You’re gonna know what you do and how you do it. He was terrific without him being out in the he’d like to go with me out to the projects and project offices and the district offices and really took him obviously a sincere interest in what was going on.

So, when this job came back open and of course I thought the world of Melinda McGrath also. But anyway, when she was no longer director and there was a vacancy Brad’s name was mentioned to me. You know, I said, “Well, I don’t know that I would have thought of that.” You know, Brad head job chief of staff, Senator Cochran and all sorts of other big the chairman of the Mississippi Republican Party and so forth. But you know I think it you know it might be a really good fit because he’s going to walk in there knowing what MDOT’s all about unlike some directors that have been place in there before in the history of the highway department, in the Mississippi Department of Transportation and I was right. And from all I hear from the employees he did that first that first thing. He’s still getting out there getting involved and understanding what’s going on and wanting to know what you’re doing and so forth. So, I’m real pleased that those in charge of this election chose that way.

(Paul) And it’s got to be kind of cool your legacy almost kind of lives on with him too to this day of you know what you accomplished; you know your assistant he’s running the whole show now.

(Dick Hall) Well, yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of hard to believe. He has matured a little bit since he was my assistant.

(Will) Absolutely.

(Dick Hall) No. In all seriousness, he is as you know like another son to me, but he’s made me very proud of the job he’s doing, and he’s got some big plans for MDOT. And then he and Will and others that dealt with the legislature this year did a fantastic job. I mean
(Will) I appreciate that.

(Dick Hall) That was so frustrating to me. I said it’s a former amendment legislature and Senator King, well Commissioner King served in the state senate and it just it was frustrating not to be able to get it done what we really need to get done. And I think they got more done this year than I can remember in a long time.

(Will) And you mentioned Commissioner King in there and you have a relationship with our other commissioner Commissioner Simmons who served with him back in the legislature as well. You keep up with those guys too much these days?

(Dick Hall) No. Anyway, Commissioner Simmons, Senator Simmons we served together in the state senate, and we were good friends. He was a democrat and I’m a republican. But we always could get together and talk about whatever it is we need to talk about and come to something that we could both live with. And so, I always appreciated that about Commissioner Simmons and I still call him Senator Simmons commissioner now. And his word was good. He told me just something you were going I’m gonna do it.

(Will) I’ve referred to him as Commissioner Senator Simmons many times and put it all in one and get it right there. And Commissioner King as well I think y’all’s timelines didn’t quite hit at the same time in the legislature but served on the commission here. I know you guys had a bunch of good years together.

(Dick Hall) Yeah. Very much so. And we became very close in our service here on the commission. I served with some great guys like Zach Stewart and Mike Taggart and just well Brown. And we’ve had some good commissioners.

(Will) And speaking of Brad as you mentioned and all the other staffers we’ve got, you know Mikey in the house with us today was a stall work for you for many years there. You’ve always got good folks around you it seems like. I’ve been very, very, very blessed. I thank the Lord many times. I don’t know why it’s worked out that way, but I have had remarkable people. I’ve had some other young people come to work for me went on to some significant things outside of MDOT. So, I don’t know why or how it happened, but I think the good Lord for sending those kind of folks to me.

(Will) Yeah. Absolutely. And just kind of rolling on into some other the fun questions here we got for you. You spend a lot of time traveling the state as a commissioner, as a legislator or otherwise just leisurely. You always got to stop in and get something to eat somewhere. Is there a local favorite or maybe somewhere out in the state that man anytime you just happen to be in the area got to stop in there and get a bite to eat?

(Dick Hall) Well, I don’t think it’s there anymore, but the Mendenhall Round Table would be one.

(Will) Absolutely! It’s for sale right now. It’s vacant.

(Dick Hall) Yeah. My vehicle wouldn’t pass there without it well without stopping in. Mississippi is very fortunate in that. In fact, when I was younger, I had a traveling job and I would start, I would get in my mind you know, I stopped in this little and speaking particularly stopping in small towns at lunch time. That’s where you want to go for lunch not big town. You go to a small town for lunch. And yes, so we’re very blessed in Mississippi.

(Will) And then the best part you know about traveling around is you get to taste all the kinds of different things and areas. We’ve had so many good recommendations. We talked about maybe next year running through these podcasts at these different food spots that people recommending. I think that’s a perfect idea.

(Paul) I love that idea. Commissioner Hall, we’ll just ask you one more thing and wrap things up. What are you up to these days? What’s going on in your life?

(Dick Hall) You know, I used to ask people that retired, I’d say, “What do you do with your time?’ And they’d say, “I don’t know how I had time to have a job.” Now I know exactly what they meant. And particularly Brad seems to always keeps coming up with something for me to do. But no, I’m very fortunate I’ll have to admit I am not up at an office somewhere at eight o’clock in the morning. I take my time getting started in the day. But it’s vey full. In fact, I’m believe it or not I actually maintain an office. I had to. I didn’t put all that stuff somewhere.

(Will) Yeah.

(Paul) Sure.

(Dick Hall) It’s still sitting there like I guess one of these days I’ll try to get it organized. The state of Mississippi State’s asked me to send them my papers and I don’t even know where to start.

(Will) Just give them the address to the office.

(Paul) Yeah. Absolutely. There you go.

(Dick Hall) I think I’m gonna put it in my will those boxes. They can do what they want with them.

(Will) Yeah. They’ll have to figure it out. Selfishly, I do have one question thought. So, I haven’t worked for Senator Cochran. I know I go to be around him and learn about his career what not. You two were close back in the day. But I think there’s a funny story too about you maybe being called out as senator at a ballgame or something.

(Dick Hall) Well, Senator Cochran that’s like six months older than I am, same age and same you know live in Byrum. And we’ve always had a lot in common. And a lot of people got us confused for some reason. Really, I didn’t remember that time but the one that really sticks out in my mind that I was at a Jackson State ballgame football game. And they introduced Senator Cochran. And I looked around and I said, “Well, I didn’t know Senator Cochran was here. I wonder where he is. I don’t see him anywhere and I finally realized everybody’s looking at me. So, I stood up and waved. And the next time I saw Senator Cochran, I told him, I said, “There was 25,000 people out there thought you were at that ballgame. That really happened.

In fact, at the state capitol for inauguration, I forgot whose inauguration it was in there and afterwards you know everybody’s kind of getting just kind of visiting around there. And some guy and Senator Cochran standing over here talking to somebody. And this other guy comes and starts talking to me about my time in the navy or something. I said, “No. I wasn’t in the navy.” He said, “Well, Senator, sure you were.” And he thought I was Thad Cochran and Thad’s standing over there next to me talking to somebody. But that way if you’re going to get confused with somebody, I would think Thad Cochran’s a good person to be confused with.

(Will) Very true.

(Paul) That is very true.

(Will) I missed out on a great opportunity to be the proverbial to be in two places at once. Man, you could have just had the twin senators running all over the place.

(Paul) Well, Commissioner Hall, we really appreciate you coming in today. What a fascinating perspective and great to hear from what I would say one of the main figures in Mississippi transportation history. You’ve had a just phenomenal career and we really appreciate you coming in to speak with us today.

(Dick Hall) Well, thank you guys. It’s nice to sit around and talk about some of these things.

(Will) And we hope you continue to refer to it as us and are you forever a part of the family.

(Dick Hall) I just can’t help that.

(Will) We’re perfectly okay with that.

(Paul) No doubt. So, we’ll go ahead and wrap things up. Thanks again, Commissioner Hall for coming in and speaking with us today.

We want to thank all of our listeners out there for tuning in to The Extra Mile podcast. We also want to thank our producer Katey Hornsby and our editor Drew Hall. They do tons behind the scenes to make this show go.

Remember you can listen and watch each episode by visiting GOMDOT.com forward slash The Extra Mile and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Twitter. Handle there is @MississippiDOT. And as always remember to drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.