The Extra Mile Podcast: Legislative Session - Deputy Executive Director/Chief Engineer Earl Glenn

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*INTRO MUSIC*

(Paul Katool) That's nearly 2 billion and that's money that's going to be spent on improving safety, enhancing mobility and improving economic growth and development in the state of Mississippi.

(Will) Yeah. And with this historic funding from the legislature, new construction will be popping up all over Mississippi.

(Drew Hall) MDOT presents the Extra Mile Podcast.

(Brad White) Men and women of the Department of Transportation are up to the task and up to make sure that we deliver a product that the taxpayers can be proud of. So I'm ready for us to go to work.

(Paul) Welcome into another edition of the Extra Mile podcast legislative session presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I'm MDOT Deputy Director of Public Affairs Paul Katool. And as always, I'm joined by my co host, Will Craft, the director of public affairs here at the agency. And, uh, you probably know around this time of the year, we usually have elected officials, legislators on the show.
However, we cannot help mother nature. If you're paying attention, there's a pretty bad, uh, Winter weather event last week. And so today we are going to introduce Mr. Earl Glenn, who is the deputy executive director, chief engineer here at the agency. Earl, thank you for joining us. And to kind of get us started.

I know you were you have been here since 1998. So you can you kind of walk us through what all you've done at the agency, sir?

(Earl Glenn) Sure, sure. Again, I'm Earl Glenn, deputy director for chief engineer for MDOT. Been here since, uh, 1998, uh, graduated Mississippi State University in that same year. Uh, then, uh, began working at Newton project office as a, uh, project manager, uh, did that for a couple of years, uh, then went to move to the, uh, uh, Whitfield project office as a project manager and later project engineer, uh, to work on, uh, the, State Route 463, uh, Spooey, Spooey interchanged area in Madison.

Uh, later from there, uh, several projects there. Uh, during that time for probably the next six, seven years before I moved to, uh, the construction division of MDOT as a, uh, an area engineer for District 2, which is in Batesville, Mississippi. Uh, worked there, uh, for Uh, three to maybe three to four years before becoming the assistant construction engineer.

Uh, uh, later the state construction engineer. And um, uh, I did that for about four years, uh, before I moved to be the district three district engineer in Yazoo City. Um, I did that job for about, uh, two and a half years, which was over as about, which was over, uh, 12 counties. And the Delta region enjoyed it very much.

Uh, uh, we're able to make some, get some accomplishments there, uh, such as, uh, the, uh, Greenville Bypass. Uh, we, we've been working on that project, uh, able to get it started. Uh, phase two of that project, uh, was bid, uh, Tuesday to attack on and, uh, continue that to Leland. So, uh, with that bypass project, it will, uh, be able to Bypass Greenville from the Mississippi River to Leland.

So that was a, uh, major project going on there. And as well, we were working on, uh, Port Gibson, a bypass there. Uh, so there's a design project underway for that. Uh, happy to see those projects move along. Uh, before I, uh, was able to, uh, take this job as the chief engineer. Uh, and have been here since, uh, the first of January.

(Will) Rockin and rollin fast and furious too. I think you've got a really good, what'd you say, I think you'd agree with this, you've got a really good background kind of throughout MDOT, working in different spots, different places. I'm sure that has helped a long way in taking this role now, right?

(Earl) Absolutely. I think about it every day since I've been on this job.I use a good bit of the experience that I've used. I've learned every stop that I've been at.

(Will) Did, uh, did Brian Ratliff teach you anything at all out in Newton office, or did you just have to, you know?

(Earl) Yeah, well, Brian and I met at the, uh, Whitfield project office. When I was there, uh, uh, so it was, uh, myself, him, uh, and some others that work at MDOT still today, like, uh, Albert White.

(Will) Okay, yeah.

(Earl) Um, um, Bradley Williams. Was there, uh, so, uh, so.

(Will) That was a hot spot for recruiting efforts at one point, apparently.

(Earl) Right, right, right, so. So, uh, Richard Chisolm, that was one of our prior, uh, assistants. So, uh, we were all there together at the same time. We were able to kind of throw things off of each other and, and, and learn a good bit.

And working here in the Jackson, uh, area, it was always challenging projects that required you to, uh, you know, perform at your best.

(Will) Man, and you mentioned some of those huge ones, those, that Port Gibson project, I know the folks down there are glad to see that moving, um, and the Greenville Bypass, another great project for the Delta, um, that, you know, we've been real excited about, we've been real, very vocal about a good thing happening, uh, as far as that transportation system goes over there, so.

A lot of exposure to a lot of projects around the state, man, but, uh, so how's it been taking over as our Chief Engineer?

(Earl) It's been, it's been fine. Um. You know, uh, been a lot busier, uh, because you're, you're taking on, uh, more responsibility. But, uh, the, you know, if you got good people, uh, we were able to bring, uh, uh, bring on a good team with, you know, with me.So, not doing it alone. Uh, we're working as a team real good. Um, and, uh, uh, we were dividing up our work and our duties. You know, still, we're still learning each other a little bit. Learning our strengths and weaknesses, what not. But, um, uh, at this point, very happy with it.

(Will) Love it. Love to hear it.

(Paul) No doubt.

You could really have a career at MDOT. Uh, me and Will are kind of youngins, but we've, you know, both had several roles here. So if you're, if you're an engineer, come to MDOT and work your way up and become chief engineer one day, right?

(Earl) Absolutely.

(Paul) There you go. Very cool. So besides getting to know you, Earl, we, um, we wanted to kind of break down this winter weather event.

Uh, so can you kind of tell us how, uh, the DOT, uh, prepares for winter weather events or, uh, just kind of, uh, Severe weather in general and then kind of get into the pre-treatment of that sort of thing for us.

(Earl) Okay, so the weather event we just experienced last week was, it was forecasted. We were able to go ahead and get in front of it.

I feel the week prior we had conversations, we had Conference calls with all the districts to make sure that they they had the supplies that they needed, and the equipment to work with Uh, they went ahead and put their employees on notice that, um, that, that beginning of last week would likely be, uh, one of the, the most, uh, uh, treacherous times that we would be dealing with.

We hadn't had ice storm in a couple of years, so we wound up having to, um, pull back on some of the lessons learned from the prior storm, which was in, I think, 2020. So, um, uh, but some of, as far as some of the pre-treatment that we do, um, there is a, uh, solution, a salt brine that we put down. Uh, it can be placed on the roadway prior to, uh, the ice event, but you don't want to do it before it rains.The rain can wash it away and it becomes less effective.

(Will) That was something I did not know that I learned, uh, in that conversation. I did not know the timetable and that the rain could, you know, evaporate the efforts.

(Earl) Yes, yes, so you could lose some of your Uh, ground that you think you were gaining.

So, we pre treat some of the major routes in particular, such as interstates, U. S. routes, uh, to make sure that, uh, at least one travel lane is open at all times. Uh, we, uh, in the northern area of the state, they, uh, they, they received a refreeze event, uh, which was a second event, uh, somewhere about midweek.

Uh, which threw their workers back into a cycle of, of, of not being able to, to complete things like they would have thought, uh, because they had to go back out and basically just start all over again uh, we invested about, uh, two million dollars.Into the effort of statewide for, uh, for this ICE event.

About 37,000 man hours, uh, workers of their time, uh, from home, uh, overnight, um, coming back to work for us during that time. Uh, and, uh, you know, in the middle of a lot of other things that were going on, you know, in their own personal lives. There's a lot of, uh, sacrifice. That, uh, we thank the employees for, for, for doing for us, because without them, that's the only way we can keep Mississippi moving.

(Will) Yeah, you know, and that's something we haven't talked about in a little while. It's kind of more of a hurricane season topic, but, you know, uh, our folks being recognized as first responders, you know, because really, like a lot of those times, emergency services can't get through until we clear the roads.

(Earl) Absolutely. So it's, it's, I mean, we're, we're right as a, we're, you're exactly right. First responders is the perfect word for it. Without them, uh, I mean, we can't get police, can't get, uh, uh, ambulances and fire trucks, everything else can't, can't make it to their, their destination without us trying to get out there in front of them.

(Paul) Want to brag on a little more. I mean, so I heard stories, some of these, uh, these, uh, maintenance crews, first responders were actually like walking to work. They were sleeping overnight at the, at the headquarters, that sort of thing. So they were working around the clock for over a week, correct?

(Earl) That's correct. So. Uh, you know, when the roads are bad, uh, it's easier for them sometimes to just stay at work. Uh, we, we do have, uh, facilities in some of our shops, showers, uh, where they can, they can bed down and stay rather than, uh, turn around and go, go home and come back. It's easier sometimes that way. Depends on what the situation is.

(Will) Man, I can't imagine. But yeah, big thanks to the folks out there that are taking the. We use the colloquial term, you know, we doing these things, and it is not I, uh, should make that very clear. I don't think anyone's under that, uh, assumption anyway, but yeah, big thanks to the folks out there doing the hard work.

What about, um, do we, do we kind of take anything, any new lessons learned maybe from this storm?

(Earl) Uh, yes, you can always learn. Uh, we, there is this, um, we were talking this morning, we had a we had a safety call with all of the districts and, uh, where they all report injuries or near misses things that, you know, might help others, uh, in other districts just as we have a good conversation.

So, uh, one thing that came up was, uh, a particular snow plow that, um, it, it, it, it was a newer version of a snow plow, but it, uh, the blade on it, uh, when it, When you're scraping ice, it, uh, it tends to, to, to tilt over, uh, if it catches. Uh, whereas some of the older plows that they were accustomed to using, it had like a breakaway mechanism to where it wouldn't, uh, tilt.

It wouldn't throw the blade over. And, uh, some of the maintenance guys were telling us that that was probably something that we need to go back and, and try and look back at the difference between newer and older. Uh, uh, scrapers to make sure that we're not, that we're staying safe.

(Will) You know, you mentioned that talking about scraping ice.

What was that? I think you were telling us just, uh, kind of before we got rolling here, Um, you can only do so much, even as far as scraping ice, because you start hurting the roadway.

(Earl) Right, right. So, um, so there's, you know, there's snow, then there's ice. Ice, to us, is probably one of the worst. It sticks, and you've got to find a way to scrape it up.
Or, uh, put a de-icing material, material down to where it melts away. But, the temperatures during that time, they, they never, uh, really rose above freezing. So, uh, trying to melt it, it would only return again, you know, at nightfall or whenever the temperature dropped. So, our best option was to, to attempt to get travel lanes open by scraping it off.

And when you're scraping it, it's, it, it sticks so hard until you, you can't, the snow plows weren't able to pick it up and scrape it away like we would have liked. But as, uh, as the week went on, the temperatures rose. And it, it started to break the bond between the road and the bottom side of that ice. So it was able, we were able to get it off a lot better.

(Will) That's a good example, I think, of, you know, we can do as much as we possibly can. But at the end of the day, we're still dealing with Mother Nature. And she is undefeated. You know. There's only so much we can, we can do. And you get to a point of diminishing returns, I think, you know, uh, a lot of situations where you can, like you just said, you know.

Precipitation comes in and wipes away those efforts, you know, now we got to start back over.

(Earl) Right, right.

(Will) You know, some of those situations are just unavoidable. Um, what about staff wise, do we have enough folks, I think, you know?

(Earl) I, I feel we do. Um, you know, MDOT's got, um, you know, we, we did, uh, ask that very question. Uh, after the first event, uh, the, the districts south of us, like District 7, 6, 5, they were They were asking those, helping us ask those questions. What resources could they bring up to the Northern districts? If we, so we were having communication with Northern districts to see if they needed additional staff, if they need additional equipment.

Or additional materials because we really felt confident that our southern, uh, uh, end of the state was kind of in the clear. So we could move those resources up north if we needed to. But, uh, they were able to, they were telling us that, uh, they, they were able to supply, resupply in time. And, and, uh, but we were kind of monitoring that situation.

(Will) Tough, tough, tough ask out there. And again, just man, shout out to all the, the hardworking folks out there getting it done.

(Paul) Absolutely. Just one more thing on, on this. So a lot of people like to kind of compare our efforts to like, uh, states up North, right. You know, like their, uh, their response to the snow and ice, but it's a little bit different for us, right?

I mean, we're just, we don't have to deal with this thing year round, right?

(Earl) Right. So, uh, that, that is true. Uh, but we do still try and learn and, and do better. Uh, states up north of us, they, they budget more of their budget toward the snow and ice because they are 100 percent sure each year that they're going to get it.
Uh, we, we tend to try and proportion it with risk and not just have, uh, stockpiles of salt or material that might degrade and we won't use it. So we try and proportion that with risk. Uh, and, uh, I think we've been doing a pretty good job of that. Um, states up north, they, uh, they, when you deal with it a lot more, you're pretty sure you're gonna get it.

You can dedicate more of your budget towards something that you're pretty sure is gonna happen. Whereas, uh, not getting it as much, you don't want to overspend in areas and have equipment that sits. Uh, a snowplow that never gets used or, uh, salt that never gets used. So we try and proportion that with risk. And, uh, that's kind of where we are.

(Paul) That's a really good way to put it, put it much better than me. All right. So thanks again to everyone that was a part of that effort. Uh, lots of people, you know, out there in really dangerous conditions, away from their families. So shout out to them for sure.

Uh, we'll get onto maybe a little more fun subject with Will right here.

(Will) Yeah, absolutely. So we like to wrap up our episodes with a couple of fun questions and, uh, As you mentioned, you've done a little bit of bouncing around the state and, uh, you know, uh, been in different areas and different districts. We like to eat. As a podcast, as a people. We like to eat.

And, uh, man, you got any favorite local spots? Or maybe even a favorite spot that you don't get to go to very often around the state?

(Earl) Absolutely. One of my favorite spots is probably Pearl Frisco Deli.

(Will) Oh, yeah, it's a frequent flier on the episode. I mean on the podcast.

(Earl) Yeah, I like to go there a good bit. When I was in Yazoo City, I kind of missed out on the lunch. But since I'm back, able to get there for lunch now a little better.

(Will) Where was the go to spot in Yazoo?

(Earl) We had a local restaurant called Ubon’s. It's a barbecue joint. Real good.

(Will) Very much so. Absolutely. Uh, and then, you know, uh, me and Paul like to eat, uh, or as much as I like to eat, Paul likes to listen to music.

So he's got a music question for you.

(Paul) Well, let's roll with it. So yeah, we talk a lot of music and public affairs. So what's maybe your favorite concert you've ever attended?

(Earl) Okay. Um, I'm a little more into the gospel scene. So, uh, my last concert was a Mary Mary concert in Memphis, uh, where they perform.
Uh, So, uh, you know, I don't get to go all the time, but, um, you know, just if I can catch a gospel group, you know, performing somewhere around, I'm, I’ll usually be in attendance.

(Will) That was probably some of my first exposure to, uh, to music, uh, back in the day, my, my grandmother used to keep all the, uh, the Gaither vocal band.

They have like the Gaither homecoming, uh, things, and you'd hear, you know, all those different artists and stuff. And so, uh, I resonate with that very much so that. What is that, the Forum up there in Memphis? Is that the?

(Earl) Yes, FedEx Forum.

(Will) That place is incredible, too. I've seen several good shows up there. So, strong answers, very much so.

We're going to have to go get some Eubanks and some Frisco Deli next week now.

(Paul) Let's do it. We are putting them on the list for sure, for sure. Earl, thank you so much for stopping by. I know you started on January 1st and just got hit with something right off the bat, so it's all uphill from here for sure. Thank you, sir.

Alright, we'll go ahead and close out the show. Thank you to our listeners, our viewers, viewers for tuning into the Extra Mile podcast. You can watch and listen to episodes by visiting GoMDOT.com forward slash the extra mile. Follow us on social media at MississippiDOT is the handle there.

We want to thank our producer, editor extraordinaire, Drew Hall, for holding things back, holding things down for us behind the scenes. And remember to drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.