Extra Mile Podcast: MDOT Alternative Program Deliveries Division Director Jessica Dilley

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*INTRO MUSIC*

(Paul Katool) That's nearly 2 billion and that's money that's going to be spent on improving safety, enhancing mobility and improving economic growth and development in the state of Mississippi.

(Will) Yeah. And with this historic funding from the legislature, new construction will be popping up all over Mississippi.

(Drew Hall) MDOT presents the Extra Mile Podcast.

(Brad White) Men and women of the Department of Transportation are up to the task and up to make sure that we deliver a product that the taxpayers can be proud of. So I'm ready for us to go to work.

(Paul) Welcome in to the latest edition of the Extra Mile podcast legislative session presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation.

I'm MDOT Deputy Director of Public Affairs, Paul Katool. And as always, I'm joined by my co host, Will Craft. Who is the director of public affairs here at the agency. Will, it's always really exciting to get our engineers on the show. And we're going to have one on today who's been on that, been on the show before.

Jessica Dilley, uh, but she's in a new role, a brand new role. She is now the director of the Alternative Program Deliveries Division. Jessica, that's pretty fancy. Uh, It's been a little while since you've been on the show. Why don't you kind of tell us a little bit about who you are, and then maybe get into, um, what your division does.

(Jessica Dilley) Okay. Um, well, thank you. Yes, it's, uh, if you only knew the amount of iterations that we went through to get to that name, some of them were much longer. So, um, that's actually, that's actually a pretty short inversion, but. So, the Alternative Program, Delivery division. Um, under it is grants and then alternative project deliveries, as well as the electric vehicle infrastructure program, and then also supports the digital delivery initiative.

And then, um. More of in a supporting role for program management.

(Will) Okay. I did not realize the electric vehicle stuff was underneath you guys as well.

(Jessica) Yes.

(Will) So that is not part of the agenda, but definitely something we may want to get into. So you guys are helping with that rollout too.

(Jessica) Yes.

(Will) Okay. I did not know that.

(Jessica) Maybe I can get my third, third time on.

(Will) That's right. That's right. We'll have to get you back on an episode. We're going to get you to the five timers club, like the old SNL throwback there. But yeah, so now you were in planning first. Is that right?

(Jessica) Correct.

(Will) When you first came to MDOT?

(Jessica) Yes.

(Will) Or maybe not when you first came, but.

(Jessica) Um, no, I've always been in planning. Um, I started in planning. I worked in, um, on feasibility studies, mostly in District 1 and 2, which is our northern part of the state, um, and then was over feasibility studies for the entire state until I moved into the assistant, um, director role. And then, Into the role that I'm in now.

(Will) Nice. So how, and you, this is not brand new, right? A couple months.
(Jessica) Started July 1.

(Will)July 1.

(Jessica) So 2023, yes.

(Will) We're coming up on a year then.

(Jessica) Oh, that's really scary.

(Will) You got it all figured out, right?

(Jessica) Absolutely not. *Laughter*

(Will) We were just talking about the organization, uh, you know, finesse that we execute here on a daily basis, but the wheels are rolling.

(Jessica) Oh. They're, they're rolling. They're rolling. Hopefully in the right direction. But we're, um, I think, I think we're making really good progress, but, um, we'll do, you know, a year in review.

(Will) So, well, then let's talk about that. So how this came to be, right? Uh, I think used to the design build works was kind of parked in a different place, but, uh, we've seen that grow.

Over the last couple of years and so the need to create that division that you guys are running now What's that like? So what is design build? I guess let's start there.

(Jessica) So yes design build kind of always sat on its own because it works Over a lot of boundaries. So it typically in in most DOTs also sits kind of in its own Um, so right now we are only able to do design, traditional two step design build.

Um, we are working to get legislative change so we'd be able to expand that program. So design build falls under a category called alternative deliveries. So, um. And, and several different things fall with that, so that's design build, um, CMGC, or some people call it CMAR, which is construction manager at risk, and then there's also progressive design build, um, and then also P3.

(Will) Okay. Right. Public private partnerships. Yeah.
(Jessica) Yeah. So, all of, all of those fall under the alternative delivery category. Um, right now, we can only do traditional design build, but we are hoping to be able to do CMGC and, um, progressive design build as well to expand that program. Additionally, um, right now, we're really limited on the amount of projects that we can do.

So There is, we can do one over 10 million or two under 10 million, so we're also hoping to Um, expand that to be able to do more and have more opportunities to integrate this type of project delivery as appropriate, you know, without being limited to the amount and size of the project.

(Will) This may be a dumb question, but forgive my ignorance.

So how does a design build project differ from maybe a traditional as an alternative delivery? How is it alternative? Does that make sense?

(Jessica) Yeah. So, um. Our standard process is design, bid, build. So we get a designer who's qualification based. They come and they design the project. We work through all the permitting and then we put it out to bid and contractors bid on it.

So there's really like a very defined line between the design process and the construction process where alternative delivery kind of, Um, kind of integrates the two. So brings the construction side overlapping with the design side. So the thought is that you can accelerate your schedules. You can potentially cut down on some costs because you can use innovative solutions to get to your delivery of your project.

One, one way that I like to try to kind of explain what the difference is, is because most people have bought a house or live in a house or, or kind of know, know what that process is. And, um, Um, your traditional design build would be related to if you went out and you got an architect and they drew up some drawings and then you finalize those drawings and you took the drawings to a contractor and they built it for you.

So that would be kind of similar to our traditional design bid build process where if you are going to buy a house and you go and you go into a neighborhood and there's maybe some houses that aren't completely finished. But they have kind of what you want. Maybe it's a three bedroom with a kitchen, but the light fixtures aren't up, the countertops aren't done, um, maybe the placement of the bathroom is not complete, and you work with the contractor to finalize those elements.

That's more similar to a design bid, or, design build process.

(Will) Okay. That's a really good analogy. Okay.

(Paul) Yeah. That's, you know, you're working with non engineers. So, uh, that was a very, very good explanation. Uh, so you're talking about these projects. Can you give us any examples, uh, recently of projects that we've done with the alternative delivery?

(Jessica) So, um, we ha we've. We finished one, um, on I 59 not that long ago, a couple years ago, but right now we're working towards one on I 20, so through the Jackson area. Um, we're currently in the procurement process for that one. So, um, that one's kind of in the works. We're also working on one in Marshall County to help support the MDA economic development that's off of U.S. 72.

So those are two that we're actively working on that we, um, you should see some more activity on them throughout the, this year and into next year.

(Paul) Interesting. And so, I do have a question. So, the Bay St. Louis Bridge, the Biloxi Bay Bridge, back in the day, you know, when Katrina happened, those were these type of projects, correct?

(Jessica) Yes. So, when we, design build came around in 2008, and it was more experimental, um, which is kind of crazy to think about, like, how long ago that was. Yes. Um, so. Whenever they, they came on board, you know, like anything we were going to do like just test them out on like a simple bridge replacement, make it like a very, you know, easy process for everybody and then Katrina happened and that got accelerated.

So those projects were our initial, um, design build projects. that we did and lots of lessons learned and basically helped establish our design build program that we use still today.

(Paul) That's awesome. And it was very accelerated to correct. I mean, it was, it was almost a miracle.

(Jessica) Yes, they got done.

(Will) Well, I think, you know, if, if there's two keywords to take from it, right, faster and for less, you know, I mean, I guess three keywords, it's not harp on the semantics here, but yeah, you know, faster, cheaper, um, those are good things to have in the toolbox.

And tell me again, what you just said a minute ago, there's, what's our limitations right now?
(Jessica) So right now we can do one over 10 million and two under 10 million. Okay. Yeah. But. As y'all know, right now, doing a project under 10 million is, is, is, is rather difficult just because prices have accelerated, things are more expensive, um, so with this new program though, so our traditional design build process has a little bit of limitations in the way it's delivered.

With the CMGC and progressive design build, it'll enable us to work with contractors earlier. So hopefully helping to mitigate the risk between MDOT and contractors. So with our traditional design build process, though it still is relevant to a lot of our projects, it Um, there is kind of a shift in risk that happens to the contractor because they have to absorb everything on the front end.

So these additional types of deliveries will allow us to, um, help balance that risk out between the DOT and the, um, contractor.

(Will) Okay. That's good. Again, yeah, making it a little bit more even, uh, I think would hopefully result in even faster and more cost reduced deliveries.

(Jessica) That's the hope.

(Will) I love that. And what's the, uh, are we removing the cap?

What's the legislation exactly doing?

(Jessica) So we, with having caps, what we have heard from other states and what we have experienced in the industry is that it really, those caps introduce more limitations to not only you know, yourselves, but also the industry itself. So we are looking to remove the caps on the project limits as well as to the types of deliveries that we can use.

(Will) Okay. Awesome.

(Paul) Interesting. So I guess we were planning on talking about now we know the electric vehicle charging station. So I know that's kind of a federal program that we're kind of administering. So what's kind of the latest on that?

(Jessica) So, um, we are, Currently aiming to have the RFPs for those out by the end of the year.

Um, the plan today is to do that in a two step process. So we'll do, um, potentially half of our stations this first round, and then our second half of the stations the second round. Um, You know, that way we have an opportunity to kind of finesse anything that maybe needs need some changes in the meantime.

And but we are still looking to get those out on the street by the end of this year.

(Will) And correct me if I'm wrong here, which probably will be like, our role in that is kind of simply a pass through maybe a check in balance, right? I mean, by and large, those are You know, this program was rolled out by the feds, but we, you know, had to do, we have to be a part of, for better or worse, um, and these are private entities that are actually competing or bidding for the project, right?

Correct? We're just rolling the funds through.

(Jessica) And what, you know, our role will just be ensuring that those are compliant with the standards that we are required to uphold through. Sure. Um, you know, whatever laws are set up through the NEBI program.

(Will) Okay. Yeah, it's interesting. Very interesting. Um, and so you said, I apologize, next year?

(Jessica) We're hoping the RFPs will be out by the end of this year.

(Will) When do you think we'll see the first projects maybe? And that's a difficult question.

(jessica) That's a hard question. I feel like you're putting me on the hot seat here.

(Will) What do you think, by 26?

(Jessica) Um. I would think by 26. So even when we have the RFPs, there's still a process.

We'll still have to go through, um, you know, selecting and awarding those. And then after that, they'll still have to go through their own, like, environmental process. And then they'll still have to, you know, get material and construct it and then get it up and running. So it'll be It'll depend on the status of where they're putting their infrastructure in, you know, coordinating with the utilities, making sure that it has the correct power, you know, having all the equipment up and running.

Um, so a lot of that will. Will depend on their timeline as well.
(Will) It's every 15 miles on the interstate system, right?

(Jessica) Yes, except when it gets to the end, then it's at 25 so Like the state boundaries, they'll be 125 miles within 25 miles of the state boundaries

(Will) That seems like a lot of stations. I mean,

(Jessica) It's about 30

(Will) Really?

(Jessica) 28 to 30 stations.

(Will) Okay, I don't, I was in my head, I was like, that's 150, you know, charges to, I was way off. Uh, story of my life. Way off.

(Jessica) Well, that, uh, There was a lot of iterations that got to that number, so don't, don't be too hard on yourself.

(Will) Well, hey, I won't have an electric vehicle anytime soon, can't afford one.

But, uh, you know, I think that if that is to be the future, we'll be, uh, you know, we'll have a good head start on the system here. I don't know if, uh, how many, you know, these stations exist in other states, but, um, we've got a couple. Mississippi right now. I think only one that was up to the new criteria to be rolled.

I think it was on the coast. So, be on the lookout for that in the coming years. Lots of good stuff on the horizon.

(Jessica) Yeah, it's a, it's a. Ever changing market.

(Paul) Yeah, the future is now. The future is now. So before we get into some fun questions, we know you're involved with the Women's Transportation Seminar, and we talked about this a little last time.

Do you kind of remind everybody what that is and then anything kind of going on in that world?

(Jessica) Yeah. So, um, WTS Mississippi, we have a chapter here in Mississippi. It is a international organization that supports women in transportation, even though, you know, we are not biased people outside of transportation want to come join our organization, men and women.

Um, but we, it, it is a growing community. It has been great to support women in, you know, Their roles as not only in the industry, but also upcoming leaders to help provide them with the resources, tools, and connections to make them successful in their jobs. So we do, um, once a month we have coffee and conversations every third Thursday.

It's at Broad Street. If you want to come jump in, we are, we welcome everybody. Um, and then every, the second Thursday of every month. We also have a volunteer opportunity at stew pot where we work with our after school program to help provide them stem activities, so we are always looking for Volunteers.

Um, and then every other month we try to switch it up between like learning and fun So about every other month we do a lunch and learn so we actually have one today that is for governance and non profit organizations.Um, I'm actually looking forward to that just because I think it sounds really interesting.

Um, and then, well, you know, we try to swap that off so we have like a trivia night coming up. We also have, um, we're looking towards doing like pickleball, a pickleball activity. So that way you have opportunities to do something out of the office that's fun, but then also, um, Be able to earn PDHs and to, through the Lunch and Learns, and learn something that hopefully you can take back to your office or your work and integrate into your daily work life.

(Will) Sounds like you guys are having fun and moving things forward at the same time, which is always good stuff, for sure. Nice. We're gonna have to make some plans to go to some WTS event. Pickleball? I don't think I've caught a sprint in about a decade at this point in my life, so I might have to. I'll be the ref.

Or I'll bring everybody Gatorade, you know, during the event.

(Jessica) I don't, I don't also play pickleball, but maybe I will after this.

(Will) I should. I think I might pass out. We got, is there oxygen provided? I would need some, uh,

(Jessica) We can make a request. On your behalf.

(Will) Looks like you're doing it out there.

(Paul) It's for you Will.

(Will) Thank you. Most appreciated. Well, let's get into the fun questions. Um, first off, thank you for all that info. We've talked about design build, uh, a good bit down here and, uh, predominantly that conversation is about what is it? How does it work? Um, and I will forever carry that, the house analogy with me now.

That was pretty good. Appreciate that. Um, so, uh, if you've seen the podcast before and obviously have, you've been on a show with us, we like to eat, we like to talk about food. If nothing else, we want to build some roads and get something good for lunch. Uh, do you have a favorite place around Jackson Metro or maybe, uh, somewhere else in the state?

Maybe, maybe one that you don't get to go to very often.

(Jessica) Yeah, okay. I should have had this better prepared.

(Will) Sorry, like the hot seat.

(Jessica) I just, I like all types of food. I really miss Shiro.

(Will) What was that?

(Jessica) The Ethiopian place, downtown.

(Paul) Oh yeah, that was really good.

(Jessica) Oh my gosh, they're in Jira. It was like, heaven.

So I'm really just hoping they come back. And then I can say that that's

(Will) That's fair. And we'll say, you know, R. I. P. to, uh, District Donuts, who's a fan favorite that was mentioned earlier. We discovered it was closed.

(Jessica) Yeah, for three months. Another plug in, it's Trustmark. If you've never been in Trustmark, they have the best.

(Will) Cafeteria thing, right?
(Jessica) Yes, they have a great, phenomenal breakfast. Very affordable. You'll be full all day. So, stop there for breakfast. Their lunch is also great. They have a lot of options. Um, they have a wrap station where you can get a pimento jalapeno bacon ranch chicken wrap.

(Will) Oh my gosh.

(Paul) Wow. Shout out to the culinary powerhouse that is Trustmark Bank.

(Jessica) Yes.

(Paul) That's awesome.

(Will) Open a bank account, get a wrap. Let's go. There you go. That's very good. Great answers.

(Paul) Good stuff, good stuff. So we'll move on from food to music. So maybe you have a favorite concert you've been to in the past little while, or looking back in history.

(Jessica) Yeah, um, I am also diversified in my music selections, but, uh, One, I think, is, uh, my husband and I's favorite is American Aquarium.

(Will) Oh, wow. What a shout out.

(Jessica) They're, uh, they're Not as nationally known band, but it's one of the first ones we started going to. And so anytime they're in town or around, we try to. Try to go see them.

(Will) That's incredible.

(Paul) B. J. Barham, that man. He can play. He's good.

(Will) Deep Cuts only. That's a great shout out right there.

I haven't heard American Aquarium come out of many people's mouths before. That's uh, that's fantastic. I've seen them several times. Down in the Berg. Great shot off there.

(Jessica)They're a good band.

(Will) I love it. And then the last one we'll wrap up with here. Now, some of our more senior guests have had quite interesting answers with this.

But do you remember your first ride?

(Jessica) I do. And I'm kind of embarrassed, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Um, do y'all remember when they were those ads for the Saturn's where like, There was like a ball or a car or like a tricycle would run into it and like it would just pop back out like the dents. Like it was a dentless car.

(Will) I don't think so, but it's a great commercial.

(Jessica) Yeah, it was one of the dentless, dentless Saturns and it was the three door coupe.

(Will) Oh yeah, absolutely. And it was like bright blue.

I love that your parents thought, you know, that's the feature we need for our daughter, the dentless, you know, regardless of the other features, that is the one that she needs.

Did you ever acquire any dents?

(Jessica) I will say that car did not make it very long.

(Will) That's not quite as described. That's pretty good. Okay. Well, now, do you, how long, do you still have that baby by chance?

(Jessica) The Saturn? Oh, no.

(Will) Long gone?

(Jessica) Long, long gone.

(Will) You should just say it didn't make it very far.

(Jessica) It did not make it very far.

Let's just say that, uh, between when I turned 16 and when I left high school, there was multiple vehicles.
(Will) Very nice. Just testing the market out, you know. Somebody's got to keep the dealerships in place, right? Got to keep them in business.

(Paul) There's the spin right there, the PR spin. We love it. Just kidding.

(Will) Very good answers.

(Paul) Good answer, good answer. Jessica, thank you so much for coming on the show and dropping some knowledge on us.

(Jessica) Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It's always fun to come join
y'all.

(Paul) Absolutely. Alright, we're going to go ahead and wrap the show right now. Thank you to our listeners, our viewers for tuning in to the Extra Mile podcast.

You can watch and listen to episodes by visiting gom. com forward slash the extra mile. Follow us on social media at Mississippi DOT is the handle there. We want to thank our producer editor Drew Hall for making everything go behind the scenes. And remember to drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.

*Outro Music*