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(Drew Hall) MDOT presents The Extra Mile Podcast.

(Paul Katool) Welcome in to another edition of The Extra Mile Podcast presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I'm Paul Katool, and as always, I’m joined by my co-host Will Craft. And we are really cruising along towards hopefully the end of the legislative session soon, uh, getting towards the, uh, the middle of March here.

Um, with that in mind, we have a really great guest on today. We have State Senator Briggs Hobson. He represents District 23. That's Issaquena, Warren and Yazoo Counties, and, relevant to us, he is the Senate Appropriations chair. Uh, Senator Hobson, thank you so much. I know you're really busy. Thanks for coming over and speaking with us.

(Briggs Hopson) Well, thank you, Paul. Let me correct one thing. I’m also, Madison County’s in my district.

(Paul) Oh, well, include Madison.

(Briggs) So, uh, I’ve got part of Madison County in the district. So, I’ve got four counties that I represent now.

(Paul) There we go. Throw it in there. So, we like to start off with a softball question for the first-time guest. So, I know you're an attorney, lawyer by trade.
How did you get into the political, elected official realm?

(Briggs) Well, I had never done anything politically. Never run for office. Never really thought about it too much until a few years before I did run. And, uh, I've always been the kind of person that's been hands on trying to get things done and make improvements in my community.

Uh, just kind of raised that way is the way my parents are and were, my dad's passed away. But, um, I got to a certain point where I felt like Mississippi could do a lot better than what they were doing. And I felt like I needed to contribute more, and I felt like I could do it at the state level. And part of that was to see if we can make our education better in Mississippi.

And I feel like we have and we're on the right path. Uh, another thing is to try to improve infrastructure and try to make our roads and bridges better and safer. And, uh, to promote economic development is another area where I think we, um, probably didn't do as good of a job as we could have at the time. And, you know, there are a few other things. Health care is obviously a big issue in, in the state. So, um, trying to make improvements and make Mississippi a lot better place than, uh, when I first got involved.

(Paul) Love to hear that.

(Will Craft) Absolutely. Love that old saying, “Leave it better than you found it.” Um, so absolutely. Well, and you've served in numerous roles, uh, since you've been here at the, at the Capitol, but have you, have you knocked out everything that you wanted to get done already?

(Briggs) I don't, uh, not everything, but I feel like we've made a lot of progress. Yeah. I did serve as Judiciary A chair. I served as the Energy chair for a couple years and now Appropriations chair. So, I've been in good spots. I served as Vice Chair of Public Health for a couple of years and, um, you know, it, it is been very rewarding in many ways. It's been frustrating at times.

(Will) Yeah.

(Briggs) That's one of the things about politics, that if you're in it, you know, there's some good days and bad days. And, and one of the things that I always say is, um, it's like any other job. You know, you have good days and bad days in any job, and, um, but I take it to heart that there is a calling for those of us that are there to try to make our state better. And that's what I try to do every single day.

(Will) Absolutely. And for those that may not know, uh, again, as Paul mentioned, serving now as the, as the Appropriations Chairman, uh, for the Senate, for those that don't know, how would you describe that role?

(Briggs) Well, the biggest thing is we're the, you know, this sounds funny. We're the ones that spend the money in this state.

(Will) Sure.

(Briggs) Uh, people contrast the Finance Chair, which is my good buddy and colleague Josh Harkins, uh, on one side of the chamber, one side of our Senate, and then I'm the Appropriations Chair on the other side. So, he's in charge of making sure that all the revenue, uh, is right, that taxes are kept at a good rate and a low rate. Uh, and once that money comes in, then the appropriation side, uh, my committee and I and others, really everybody in the legislature has to decide what's the best budget for the state. And that's what we try to do.

And that's funding all the state agencies. Uh, it's taking care of some projects that may not be state projects, but that we deem as a whole are good for the state of Mississippi to help with things like economic development or health care. I mean, you've seen the last few years, there've been a lot of expenditures and things that we thought were important, uh, that came through an ARPA funding. Infrastructure being one of those when I know we'll talk about that. But, um, my philosophy has always been to be a good steward, be the best steward I can of every citizen's tax dollar. That's my, uh, I think number one goal as a legislator is to be a good steward of the citizen's tax dollars.

(Paul) That’s good to hear. And you kind of mentioned a little bit. Let's talk about the big one. That's Senate Bill 3095. Can you kind of break that down for us? I know there's a little bit in there for infrastructure.

(Briggs) Sure. Um, well, let me, can I go back a little bit on infrastructure?

(Will) Certainly.

(Paul) Absolutely.

(Briggs) I think this is important to understand that, uh, for those that probably watch this podcast they know that, um, there was a major plan in 1987, and it included a gas tax, um, to our current gas tax level. And, uh, unfortunately it was not indexed to cost.

(Will) Right.

(Briggs) And, and so we have found ourselves in a place where we can't keep up without something extra. Can't keep up with the maintenance of our roads as we should. Uh, and certainly it's hard to develop additional roadways and additional, uh, bridges that are needed for projects around the state. We've seen growth areas where they have to have better and more infrastructure. And I'm going to go back a little less than 1987. Go back to about 10 years ago when we started a couple of things.

The lottery was one where some additional funds came in and we voted to put the first $80 million into the lottery into infrastructure and then some additional funding that we took out through some other means and restructured some of our funding to ensure that there was money going into, uh, not just MDOT, but State Aid Road –

(Will) Right.

(Briggs) at the local level, too. The local level would be largely through use tax, um, and sales tax diversions. And that's something that I feel good about. We've helped at the local level quite a bit by making sure that they get a share of the sales tax and the county's getting use tax too. Uh, so those have helped in the infrastructure arena, but we're still having a hard time and, but for ARPA funds and maybe some CARES Act funds that came in after COVID.

We would be well short of where we need to be on infrastructure funding, but the idea, and this is something that your executive director, Brad White, and I have discussed, and your commissioners too is to have a sustainable model.

(Will) That’s right.

(Briggs) Because although right now I think MDOT, State Aid Road, counties and cities probably in the last couple of years have done okay on the number of projects and the amount of money that's gone in. The problem you have is, is that's going to run out and we need a model that is sustainable. Having said all that, you look at Senate Bill 3095, which, um, it is the Senate plan. It included a two-cent grocery tax reduction.

(Will) Right.

(Briggs) So, we started with the two-cent grocery tax reduction there. It included an income tax reduction from the, we're not even at 4 percent yet.

(Will) Right.

(Briggs) Y'all know, if you'll remember, we stepped down our 5 percent it's going to 4 percent but that's a further continued step downs to a 2.99 just under 3 percent income tax. And the third feature was the gas tax, which is a, uh, increase of three cents per gallon over three years. So, and that would be indexed.

So, we would have it where it could have an inflationary component as prices go up. And we all know that they have in time and will continue to go up in time. I mean, that's one of the things that I say to people all the time, especially as an appropriations chair, I realize government is not immune to inflation.

(Will) Sure.

(Briggs) A lot of what we do. Roads and bridges being a great example. Inflation is going to drive. The cost of a new road up is driven up dramatically. Same with many other agencies. Public safety, um, they have to have Highway patrol cars and capital police cars, and they have to have bulletproof vests and weapons and clothing, you know, all these things in a lot of our agencies and the corrections where they have to have meals for employees, all of that cost more money than it cost 10, 15, 20 years ago.

That's just the nature of the economy. It's going to always continue to inch up. It'll have downturns at time, but it'll, it'll bounce back up. So, um, what we needed to do is make sure we had a model in place for gas where we can keep up with the cost of infrastructure. So, we've got the best possible roads and bridges we can have in Mississippi.

(Paul) That's a good thing. I know the three of us are kind of in it, but those, you know, those road projects there, they're pricey, so it takes money to complete those for sure.

(Briggs) Really does. And, you know, one of the great things I've said to people about the road and bridge work is we, that's one of our best employers in the state too. It's got, it's a double –

(Will) Sure.

(Briggs) benefit for Mississippi. Not only are you improving the pathways from home to work and from business to business and from home to school and all the places that you go, but you're also, uh, you're employing a lot of people. There are a lot of people.

(Will) A lot.

(Briggs) A lot of people that are employed through the road building industry. So, uh, you’re keeping those people employed and keeping those dollars circulating through the economy and that helps keep taxes low and also helps give us the things that we want in Mississippi to, to make it best for our citizens to, to live here.

(Paul) Excellent.

(Will) Hear, hear! Cheers to, to all those points. Absolutely. Uh, we're, we're big fans of legislation, no doubt. Saying all that, where are we right now with that bill?

(Briggs) Yeah. Well, you know, the House has had a proposal, House Bill 1, which, um, I think a lot of folks have contrasted the two plans. They had a plan that also increased the money for infrastructure, which was a percentage-based, instead of a cent-based, what we did in the Senate.

(Will) Right.

(Briggs) Ours was a percentage-based increase on gas tax. They also had a step down to an elimination of income tax. They had a sales tax increase. Uh, and they also had a grocery tax. I think the net effect of their grocery tax was about a one cent, um, decrease on groceries because they had some triggers going in for locals–

(Will) Sure.

(Briggs) local options. Um, the long and short of it is that we started in one place, they started in another. Uh, I know there are discussions taking place right now. I've been involved in some of those but I uh, largely being led by our finance chairman, Josh Harkins, and the Senate Ways and Means Chair, Trey Lamar, in the House, and those two are getting together. And then, uh, if, if we can meet and come to some agreement on what we think is most important for Mississippi, and then certainly it'll go broader to the rest of the members in the two chambers and see if there's consensus on what needs to be done.

(Will) So, we're looking for the marriage of the two pieces of legislation, so to speak.

(Briggs) Yeah, I think so. I don’t think that anybody would suggest that either Senate Bill 3095 or House Bill 1 as it's written is going to be the answer. I mean, I'd love it if Senate Bill 3095 –

(Will) Sure.

(Briggs) is going to be because we think that's a good plan that we think we can live with and budget in Mississippi. It's not going to be, um, it’s not going to cause a disaster in the state, and I'm not suggesting theirs is necessarily, but I think ours is based on proformas that we've run, and we've run numerous proformas on our plan. Uh, we've run proformas on both plans, and we just feel like that Senate Bill 3095 would be the better plan. Having said that, I know discussions are taking place to see if there's some compromise there.

(Paul) Optimistic things are, something can –

(Will) We’re going to have that thing ready to sign today. Right now.

(Briggs) Yeah. I don’t think that’s going to happen. But anyway.

(Will) Moving in the right direction.

(Briggs) Hopefully, moving in the right direction.

(Paul) There we go.

(Will) Love to hear it. Absolutely.

(Paul) Uh, I think we kind of hit all of Senate Bill 3095. Uh, and, uh, anything else kind of going on in your world that you want to get out to your constituents?

(Briggs) Well, there's a lot happening, you know, I'm hearing from a lot of people. Uh, I've just mentioned a few of the hot topics around the Capitol. Uh, there are always education issues. There are going to be some there. Uh, two big ones this year are legislative and judicial redistricting. And those that aren't, haven't paid much attention to this, you might ask. About legislative redistricting and say, well, wait a minute, that just took place recently and it did, uh, the courts came back, the federal courts came back and said that there were two Senate areas and one house area that needed to be redone for, uh, potential violations of the Voting Rights Act.

And so, they have, uh, given the legislature the option to, to redraw those areas to see if they could come up with something that was suitable. Uh, each chamber has submitted a plan. The House bill dealt largely with the kind of northeast Mississippi area around, uh, Columbus and Houston, Okolona, maybe up into Tupelo a little bit.

The Senate plan had two areas. One was up in DeSoto County and, uh, maybe Marshall or into Marshall County a bit, down into the Delta some, Coahoma and maybe even Tunica County. Um, the, the other area in the state for the Senate was in the Hattiesburg area. And so that Hattiesburg area, um, will certainly be affected.

And there are about 10 Senate districts that are being affected by that plan. So, those are two big topics have been controversial. Um, there, there's all we, you know, always going to have a few criminal law issues, civil law issues that are going on right now. And, um, but there's always something you can, you know, you can't look down for two seconds and look back up and not find another issue to deal with. And this year is not unlike any other year. There's a lot of issues out there to be discussed.

(Paul) Absolutely. Well, you and your colleagues do a lot of good work over there. Lots going on.

(Will) Yeah, we greatly appreciate it. Absolutely. Without further ado, we'll sort of roll into the fun questions here. The ones that might trip you up a little bit. You got to give some real thought to these out of the box for you. As a podcast, as people, we like to eat. Uh, number one, maybe number one, and number two, we love some music. Those could, I guess, uh, flip flop either way, first or second position there, but, uh, we spend a lot of time running the roads in Mississippi. We certainly do. I can only imagine you do. I think home base for you is out in Vicksburg? Correct?

(Briggs) Correct.

(Will) So, um, is there a, a good old hole in the wall somewhere? A great place to eat that maybe you don't get to go by very often.

(Briggs) Wow, that's tough. I like to stop in holes in the wall and test them out.
Sometimes I'm lucky and they turn out to be really good. Every now and then you, you get a, uh, a kind of a dud, but, uh, we've got a bunch of them in Vicksburg, so many good restaurants. And I would not want to choose a restaurant in Vicksburg because some of my best friends and clients, even a restaurant tourist –

(Will) Very fair.

(Briggs) I'm going to stay away from Vicksburg. Certainly, and I'll stay away from Jackson because a lot of us eat there, but I enjoy, there's several places throughout the Delta that I enjoy going to.

(Will) OK.

(Briggs) Uh, obviously Doe's is an institution.

(Will) There we go.

(Briggs) Um, for a fun time. It's hard to beat that one.

(Will) Very hard to beat.

(Briggs) Um. Uh, but there are so many good restaurants in this state. I just, I love our food here. I lived on the coast for about three years and, um, so many good restaurants down there too that, uh, again, if I started naming restaurants, some of my buddies are, uh, restaurateurs there too. So, I'll be careful. I want to tread lightly when I'm talking about favorite restaurants.

(Will) Sure. There seems to be a theme going with the, uh, the coastal delegation. Every time we get one of them on, there seems to be always a, a, a beverage or a cocktail associated with the, with the restaurant recommendation. So, I know they're on the right plan. There's no doubt there. Uh, it's a shameless shout out.
I will say, uh, Vicksburg, I think it's Walnut Hills, man. Uh, I was just introduced to that last year. Incredible. I love, I will be coming back very soon.

(Briggs) Yeah. Great, great restaurant there in Vicksburg, um, Walnut Hills. My office is real close to that.

(Will) That’s tough.

(Briggs) So, as much as I enjoy Walnut Hills, I have to sometimes put up that, uh, barrier there because I could eat there all the time and it's so good and it's been around for a long time and, um, it's got a lot of fans, too.

(Will) That's kind of how I am with the, uh, Farmer's Market downtown here now, uh, it's fried chicken five days a week and, uh, doesn't, doesn't take much else than that to, to get me to go.

(Briggs) Tough for the physique and you eat that fried chicken all the time, but it's awfully good.

(Will) That’s right, that’s right.

(Paul) No doubt, no doubt. Doe’s definitely a repeat –

(Will) That’s right.

(Paul) appearance on the podcast over and over. Alright, so Will said it. We love food, but also in MDOT Public Affairs, we love music. So, is there a concert over the years that has stuck out to you that you've attended?

(Briggs) Wow, um, that is a tough one. I'm not, I'm not a big concert goer, frankly.

(Paul) Sure.

(Briggs) I just, I don't have time to go to many concerts. Um, the last one that I went to, I'll tell you, this is, it’ll show you how long it's been, and it was a great one. It was Elton John –

(Will) Fantastic.

(Paul) Whoa.

(Briggs) here at the Mississippi Coliseum. He was here about 10 or 12 years ago, and my wife and I went to that and had a great time.

(Will) I don't know if I knew that.

(Briggs) And the music was fabulous. And, you know, I don't know how old Elton John is. At the time he had to be in his 60s, but music was like he was 25 or 30, I mean, he sounded fantastic. My, my one concert that I want to go to that I've never been to is U2.

(Paul) OK.

(Briggs) My favorite, um, college band and, and U2 concert, so I'm hoping before those guys hang it up, I can make one concert.

(Will) I know, I don’t think, they're gonna be like some of these other bands, just go on forever. They'll, they'll outlive me. Uh, my, my brief exposure to U2, and this wasn't even their fault, I think. Remember when everybody got that album downloaded to your phone just automatically? That was like 15 years ago or something.

(Paul) Oh, yeah.

(Will) That’s an excellent. First off, though, getting to see Elton John live here in Jackson, that’s pretty cool. I don’t know if I even realized he ever came here.

(Briggs) Yeah, he was, he was here, and it was really, really good. I was, uh, amazed at how good it was. I just expect, you know, you expect when a performer gets older –

(Will) Some deterioration.

(Briggs) they're not going to be quite as good. He was, he was great.

(Will) That’s incredible.

(Briggs) Yeah.

(Will) Elton John.

(Paul) There you go. Elton John. And we’ll get, next time U2 plays at the Sphere you got to get out there.

(Will) That’s right. There we go.

(Briggs) I’ll work it into my, I’ve got so much free time in my schedule.

(Will) Right, right.

(Briggs) I’ll just slip out there with all that extra time I’ve got.

(Paul) Absolutely. Well, Senator Hopson, we sincerely appreciate you coming over. I know there’s a lot of balls in the air right now. Thank you for joining us.

(Briggs) Thank you, Paul. Good to be with y’all.

(Paul) Absolutely.

(Briggs) Will, thanks.

(Will) Appreciate it. Absolutely.

(Briggs) Alright, guys.

(Paul) Yes, sir.

(Will) Paul, wrap us up here.

(Paul) Yeah, we’ll go ahead and wrap it up. Thank you to our listeners, our viewers for tuning in to the Extra Mile Podcast. You can watch and listen to episodes by visiting GoMDOT.com/TheExtraMile. Follow us on social media, @MississippiDOT is the handle. We want to thank Roy Adkins for stepping in and helping us. Drew’s on the road, a little Spring Break action. Remember to drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.

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