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(Drew Hall) MDOT presents The Extra Mile Podcast.

(Paul Katool) Welcome in to another edition of The Extra Mile Podcast presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I'm Paul Katool, and today, I'm riding solo. Will Craft will be back in the fold soon. Uh, we're really moving through the legislative session, almost a month and a half in, uh, by the time this episode airs.

And with that in mind, we have another, uh, awesome legislator to come into the studio to speak with us today. We have State Senator John Horhn. He represents District 26, and that's Hinds and, uh, Madison Counties. And he is a repeat guest, actually, uh, appeared on the show in 2022. Time flies. Senator, I know there is a lot going on in your world right now. Thank you for joining us today.

(John Horhn) Well, Paul, thank you. It's great to be here.

(Paul) Awesome. So, uh, let's just start off, uh, you know, we're talking legislative session. You are the chair of the Housing committee and vice chair of Veterans and Military affairs. Is there anything going on in those committees or any other committees that you are a member of?

(John) Well, you know I'm gonna be honest with you, Paul, the legislative process is kind of taking a backseat for me right now because –

(Paul) Sure.

(John) We actually happen to be running for mayor of Jackson, and so that's occupying a lot of our time. We can't be everywhere at one time, but we're having to split up our time in those two processes. But yeah, I chair the Senate Housing Committee, and a bill that I'm particularly interested in is the, um, uh, a, um, workers, uh, housing, uh, development program. Uh, we have, uh, a lot of need for workforce housing, and, uh, there's a federal program called the Low-Income Housing, uh, uh, Tax Credit program, uh, it's commonly called LIHTCs, and that program helps to, uh, make developers whole when they're trying to do developments, uh, with, with affordable housing nowadays, you have to build to market rate standards, uh, even though the, uh, cost of, of leasing or renting those facilities may be a little, a little less because they're subsidized.

But, uh, we're having a lot of problems right now in, in the industry in that, uh, everything's gone up. Uh, the cost of labor's gone up, the cost of materials has gone up, uh, insurance has gone up and interest rates have gone up, but insurance is probably one of the, the big surprises in terms of, uh, the, the, uh, dramatic rise in costs for that. And, and so we've got this, uh, workforce housing program, uh, in the legislature, it has passed the Senate, that piece of legislation, excuse me, it's passed my committee, and it has gone to the finance committee. And so, we're waiting to see what, what kind of actions, uh, that committee will take on it. Uh, it's a revenue bill, so we've got a little time to deal with it.

Another bill, uh, that we are looking at is a homeowner, uh, repair and renovation program that will assist homeowners in, uh, being able to make repairs and renovations to their homes that are much needed. A lot of folks are on limited incomes and if you have, uh, if you're 50 percent of the area median income, if this bill passes, you would be able to get loans or grants to help with the repair and renovation of your home.

So those are the two, two big pieces of legislation in my committee right now. I'd also say, say that we, we did pass a Fair Housing Act, uh, That, uh, wound up not being taken up by the Jud. A committee, Judiciary A committee, but we may have a chance to, um, amend the bill that's on the floor right now on our calendar and possibly get that measure in.

(Paul) Excellent, excellent. Hey, uh, money's tight for everybody these days.

(John) It really is, it really is.

(Paul) Those sound like valiant, valid efforts. Uh, okay, let's shift things a little bit. Maybe a fun topic here, the Governor's Arts Awards.

(John) Oh yeah, yeah.

(Paul) I understand that you were involved in that. And, uh, lots are, I guess there were six honorees this year.

(John) That’s correct.

(Paul) Uh, talk a little bit about that.

(John) Well, you know, I used to work at the Mississippi Arts Commission.

(Paul) Sure.

(John) I'm a frustrated artist, a frustrated actor. I'm a member of the Screen Actors Guild and, um, I've been a follower of the art and cultural scene in Mississippi really all of my adult life. And it really came about, uh, my dad. One of the, you know, dad always said, a man always has to have a good side hustle.

(Paul) Sure.

(John) So, he worked in the labor movement, but he also was involved with distributing machines and equipment to juke joints all over central Mississippi. And I got my first real taste of blues music by working with him as we were going around servicing those locations.

So, so I, I really have this, um, this love of. Uh, especially blues music that's innately in my blood and, um, uh, having worked at the Arts Commission, I know of the, uh, the magic that comes from the various artists and artisans that we have in Mississippi, for a state, as small as we are, we have a plethora of great artistic talent here, not only musical talent, but literary talent as well. And, and then there are other aspects of visual art and, and the patronage of the arts, that's, um, uh, something that should be taken note of. And so, we, we, um, uh, each year, the Governor's, uh, Arts Awards are held, and this is the 37th year that they have, have been, uh, held.

And, and so, uh, about 20 years ago, I took it upon myself to say, you know, the governor shouldn't have all the credit and all the fun here. The legislature ought to pay tribute to these folks. So, each year, we bring the recipients on the morning that they're to receive their awards later that day to the Senate. And we, uh, provide, uh, commendatory resolutions to each one of them and, and pay homage to the work and contributions that they're making.

(Paul) That’s awesome. And a really good list this year. Uh, fellow blues enthusiast here. I see the, uh, the Rising Stars Fife and Drum Band.

(John) Yeah.

(Paul) I know they play with the North Mississippi All-Stars.

(John) That's right.

(Paul) Maybe, maybe Cedric Burnside last year was an honoree as well.

(John) Cedric Burnside was last year, and this year, an additional artist is Eddie Cotton.

(Paul) Oh, yes.

(John) We had Eddie Cotton. He received a Governor’s Arts Award.

(Paul) That’s amazing. Well, really good to see the state honoring all those fantastic honorees. And thanks for being a part of that. Let's move back to legislation a little bit. You know, outside of your committees, there's a lot going on.

(John) Oh, yeah.

(Paul) In the 2025 legislative session, so, what are you kind of personally keeping an eye on right now?

(John) Well, you know, the questions of whether we will expand our educational offerings to include school choice, uh, and, uh, the, uh, awarding of, of state funds to private schools is something that we're watching very carefully. Uh, we believe that it's unconstitutional to put public dollars into private schools and whether the legislature is going to follow through and actually do that or not remains to be seen, but we're watching it.

Uh, another, uh, area of concern and interest, uh, for me, uh, is, uh, what kind of tax cuts, if any, we're going to see in this legislative session. Uh, I'm a Democrat, and we Democrats feel that if we are going to do any sort of a tax reduction, it ought to be focused more on the grocery tax, that sales tax you pay on groceries, because we have one of the highest, if not the highest grocery taxes, uh, or sales taxes in the country and one of the highest grocery taxes in the country. And we believe that it has an inordinate impact on folks who are on the lower end of the spectrum. Uh, it takes more of their income to pay those taxes than it. It does someone who's, who's got a little bit more income coming in.

Uh, so, uh, as far as the income tax versus the grocery tax, I would, uh, vote on the side of, of lowering the grocery tax, uh, versus the income tax. Our, our income taxes are not that particularly onerous in Mississippi at this time. Uh, we've also done some inventory and, um, um, uh, franchise tax reductions over the last, uh, eight to 10 years that have removed $1.2 billion out of the state's coffers, and, and the more we tax, um, uh, uh, the more reductions we do in taxes, taxation, uh, the less money we have to pay for pay our bills. And so, we're concerned about any further reductions of income taxes because right now I think our income taxes are at a pretty reasonable level.

What we're hearing from our Republican friends is that we want to be able to compete with Florida, Texas, uh, Tennessee that don't have income tax and the thought on that side of the fence is, is that, uh, it'll make us more competitive to get business, uh, moving here to get new residents moving here. But, but those other states have Fortune 500 companies, uh, located in, in there. We don't have many Fortune 500 companies in Mississippi. Tourism is, while an important aspect of our economy, is not booming like it is in Tennessee or Texas or Florida. And so, we don't have some of the assets that they have that offset their lowering of their income tax. So, from our standpoint, I think that we would like to see a grocery tax reduction.

(Paul) So, is that a complete reduction of the grocery tax, in your opinion or?

(John) Well, the lieutenant governor has a plan that would, over a two-year period, take the seven percent grocery tax that we’re paying right now and reduce it after two years to three percent. And we think that that's reasonable. We'd like to see the tax go away, but so many small communities and other entities in Mississippi depend on the revenue from those grocery taxes.

So, uh, we've got to be careful that we don't just eliminate a revenue source altogether. Now, according to the Lieutenant Governor's plan, as I understand it, local governments, cities, and counties would be made whole and still get Uh, tomorrow, what they would be getting today, what they are getting today, and the hit would be absorbed by the state. And so, we'll see how far that goes and if that indeed becomes the proposal that the Senate offers up to the House for consideration.

(Paul) Gotcha. Gotcha. And you alluded to HB 1 on the house side. Uh, is there any traction on kind of a competing, you kind of just mentioned it, but is there any timeline on a competing Senate bill or something, a proposal on that end?

(John) Well, you know, the House is really good about getting stuff out fast. Even when it's not necessary to get, you know, this is a revenue measure. So, uh, that, uh, revenue measures are generally taken up later in the session, but the House put it out there, uh, uh, in, in the first couple of weeks of, of our being down here. And, uh, so they kind of put pressure on the Senate to come up with this, its answer to that. And I think we will see an answer fairly soon.

(Paul) Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, you heard it here. Uh, and then let's kind of pivot to infrastructure a little bit. Uh, you know, MDOT Executive Director Brad White has talked a lot, and the commissioners have talked a lot about the need for a recurring stream of revenue dedicated to transportation. What are your thoughts on that and is there anything kind of going on behind the scenes there?

(John) Well, if there is, I haven't heard, but I'm sure that there's some conversation going on. Uh, yeah, I think that it's time, you know, we did the 87 Highway Program in 1987, and we really haven't done anything. Um, besides some one-time monies, basically, and a little bit, you know, the, um, uh, the lottery provides a little bit of money, uh, for, uh, transportation purposes.

But a revenue stream for transportation makes a lot of sense, and I think it ought to be user-based, and I think it ought to come through our gasoline tax. Maybe raise the stakes gasoline tax because only the people who are who are traveling and on our roads are paying that tax. And I think folks would be willing to pay a little bit more if they had the assurance that it's going to go towards the maintenance and establishment of better roads and bridges in Mississippi.

(Paul) There you go. We love to hear that for sure. Uh, circling back a little bit, any other legislation that you're keeping, keeping an eye on?

(John) Yeah, I've got a bill that came out of House, Senate Judiciary B Committee, uh, that speaks to, uh, the issue of illegal dumping. We have way too much of that going on in our state, and Mississippi is known for its beauty. We have one of the most beautiful states, I think, in the country. Uh, you know, Mississippi Burning, I recruited that when I was a film commissioner for the state, and it had eight Academy Award nominations.

(Paul) Wow.

(John) Uh, it only won one. And the one that it won was Best Cinematography. It, that film made Mississippi look so lush and beautiful. And it won an Academy Award, uh, as a, a, a result of that. Uh, and, and so it really pains me when I see people, I, I don't see them. If I saw them, I'd turn them in.

(Paul) Same.

(John) But, but, but you see the results of people coming and doing illegal dumping. And, and almost anywhere in the state, you find that going on, rather than taking a refuse to the city dump or the county dump or the regional dump site and, and, and pay a small fee to dump it legally, folks are just pulling up to pick-up truck to the back of a of a field and when nobody's looking, they, uh, uh, dump the stuff off their commercial and residential refuse.

And then, uh, they, they leave and, and leave it to somebody else to clean up and we don't think that that's right. So, we're trying to, uh, double the penalties for, uh, folks who, who, who, who commit those kinds of crimes. And then if you are, uh, dumping. Uh, more than 500 pounds of commercial material, excuse me, material, it calls for a confiscation of your vehicle.

(Paul) Oh, wow.

(John) So, uh, we think that that's gonna, gonna get people's attention. And, uh, they'll sit up and take notice and be less inclined to do illegal dumping.

(Paul) Excellent. Yeah, uh, MDOT is with you there on the litter. Uh, we got to keep our highways everywhere clean in Mississippi. It's a beautiful state. Yeah, for sure.

(John) And, and in Jackson in particular, there's way too much littering along, along our interstate. You don't see it as much, uh, out in the open country. You don't see it as much in other communities where the interstate runs through. But in Jackson, uh, there is just a, a, uh, it’s almost an epidemic of littering along I-55, I-20, and I-220, and we want that stopped. And so, we're hoping that, that measures will be put in place to make folks who commit that crime a little less likely to do so by more enforcement of our anti-littering laws.

(Paul) Excellent. Excellent. Well, uh, any, before we move on to the fun questions, any other legislation or message you want to get out to your constituents in general?

(John) I would just say that the legislative process is a very complex and difficult process. Uh, it is amazing each year that we get to the finish line because it always looks like we won't. Uh, but we appreciate the input of citizens who, uh, stop us on the street, call us on the phone, uh, send us emails, uh, asking for certain actions to be taken on, on certain measures.

And we really appreciate the citizen participation of the legislative process. Citizens should never shirk or, or, or shrink back from, from, uh, asking hard questions and, and letting their feelings be known about legislation that might be potentially coming out there or legislation that they want to see come out there.
So uh, stay, stay tuned, stay involved and stay informed.

(Paul) Oh, no doubt. Yeah. Every, and this legislation affects everybody, so, you know, get involved with the process for sure. All right. So, we teased a couple of fun questions. We'll let you off the hook. Okay. So, uh, I know you're a legislator, so you travel around the state a good bit. So, when you're trying to get a good bite to eat, maybe that's somewhere out and about in the state or maybe locally in Jackson, Madison. Where are some of your favorite places to grab a bite to eat?

(John) Oh, man, you're going to get me in trouble –

(Paul) I know, I know.

(John) with that, Paul, because there's just so many.

(Paul) Sure, sure.

(John) Uh, you know, um, uh, there's not many roads in Mississippi I've not been down. I've, I've, I've worked as a program manager with the Arts Commission. I was a film commissioner, was a tourism commissioner, ran federal state programs. So, all of those jobs required that I go around the state and, and, um, uh, see as much of Mississippi as possible firsthand. Um, so Mahogany Bar is a real favorite of mine in Hattiesburg, and I almost always as I'm coming back up from the Coast, if it's the right time of day, uh, we'll stop in at the Mahogany Bar that they've got some jambalaya down there that will make you want to slap your mama.

(Paul) Oh, yeah.

(John) And, uh, so I've never had a bad meal there. And the Purple Parrot right next door, more high end. I love that restaurant as well, but I rarely get a chance to eat there because usually I'm traveling back in the afternoon. Uh, Lusco's up in Greenwood is another favorite. I love that place. But, um, uh, you know, right here, right around the corner from us, uh, here at the headquarters of MDOT, you have Sugar's. Um, uh, Ms. Sugar's is right across the street from the MC, call it the Mississippi College School of Law, and she has plate lunches that are dynamite and very reasonably priced. So, if you're in town visiting MDOT, you need to just walk around the corner and have a visit at Sugar's. You will not regret it.

(Paul) That sounds excellent. Drew, how have we not gotten down there? A little Public Affairs group breakfast or lunch over at Sugar’s.

(John) They just started serving breakfast –

(Paul) They did!

(John) as a matter of fact, about six, six, eight months ago.

(Paul) Okay.

(John) So, they have breakfast and lunch. They close around two o'clock in the afternoon.

(Paul) Amazing. And if Will Craft was here, he would sing your praises for mentioning the Hattiesburg restaurants. He's a big Southern Miss Hattiesburg guy.

(John) Oh, yeah.

(Paul) But, uh, he'll love hearing that for sure. And then just one more question for you. Uh, music. Obviously, with our conversation today, you are a big music aficionado. Maybe, is there a concert that, uh, looking back that sticks out that you attended that really, uh, did it for you?

(John) Recently?

(Paul) Sure.

(John) In the last year or so, Doobie Brothers.

(Paul) Doobie Brothers!

(John) Out at Brandon. They put on a heck of a show. Uh, it was pretty warm that, that, I think it was in, in August that, that show was held a couple of years ago.
But they put on a show and, and it seemed like they didn't want to leave. They kept doing the crowd favorites. Michael McDonald was with them. And man, they put on a great, great show.

(Paul) Excellent, that was at the Brandon Amphitheater?

(John) That’s right, that’s right.

(Paul) We’re trying to get out there.

(John) Well, I’ve been there only once for that show, but on a regular, Central Mississippi Blues Society, every Monday night, Hal and Mal's, some of the best live blues you will hear anywhere in the country. And it's reliable, you know it's happening every Monday night, people from all over the globe come to Central Mississippi Blues Society. Uh, Hal and Mal’s, uh, it started out in the main dining room at Hal and Mal’s, and now it's over in the Red Room because there's a little bit more room there. And, and, um, I'm telling you, you're not gonna hear a better blues anywhere in the country than, uh, Blue Monday on Monday nights.

(Paul) There you go. Yeah, Brandon Amphitheater, we’re gonna try to make it out there for an episode, so stay tuned for that.

(John) Yeah.

(Paul) And then Hal and Mal’s. Hey, I’ve been to a little Blue Monday. That is some excellent listening.

(John) Oh, it’s great.

(Paul) Uh, Senator, you’ve got excellent taste. Thank you so much. I know you’re a busy man right now. Thank you for stopping by to the MDOT podcast.

(John) Thanks for the invite. I appreciate it.

(Paul) Yes sir. We’ll go ahead and wrap things up right there. Thank you for our listeners, our viewers, for tuning into the Extra Mile Podcast. You can watch and listen to episodes by visiting GoMDOT.com/TheExtraMile. Follow us on social media; @MississippiDOT is the handle. We want to thank our producer, our editor, Drew Hall, for holding things down behind the scenes. And remember to drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.

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