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(Drew Hall) MDOT presents The Extra Mile Podcast

(Paul Katool) Welcome in to another edition of The Extra Mile Podcast presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I'm Paul Katool, and as always, I'm joined by my co-host Will Craft. And, uh, Will, uh this is the last episode of the year, closing on a strong note. And we’re going to kind of look back at a successful year for MDOT –

(Will Craft) That’s right.

(Paul) and then look ahead to the 2025, 2025 legislative session. No better person to do that than MDOT Executive Director Brad White. Brad, thank you for stopping by and talking to us today.

(Brad White) Thank you for letting me.

(Paul) Yes, sir. Let's, let's just get right into it. So, another record-breaking funding year, very successful year for MDOT. Do you kind of want to highlight anything that happened in 2024?

(Brad) Well, I mean, we did break our record for the most, uh, dollar amount in awards over the course of the year, and a lot of that is due to the capacity construction program that has been, uh, restarted and awarding projects like, uh, 49 in Harrison County, Highway 15 in Tippah County, others like that, uh, that are the, the larger high, high dollar, uh, projects that, uh, helps to add efficiency to our system and things like that.

But, um, I was real pleased with that. It, it, our people did a lot of good work to get the projects programmed and to, uh, to get them ready for construction and, and, uh, underway. So, we're real pleased with where we're going. And I hope that it proves to the legislature that we can be trusted with their, uh, with the money to carry out this core function of government in a very efficient and, uh, responsible way.

(Will) Yeah. Piggyback right off of that. You know, talking about great successes this year and, uh, all the things we've accomplished. If I'm not mistaken, uh, a large part of that, uh, those successes was due to our folks and the efficiency and able to get things done so quickly. I think we were able to even get some more money.

(Brad) Right. We were awarded some federal grants and things over the course of the last 12 months. We were able to use additional obligatory authority through our partnership with Federal Highway. But even more than that, our folks that program these projects, the people that are overseeing as far as, say, the capacity projects, all of the things necessary to set the table in pre-construction, so that we can actually go to construction, have done a phenomenal job in trying to keep everything on schedule and getting everything done in a timely manner.

And I think that, you know, as I've said before, whatever credibility we have to transact business with our partners across the street under the Capitol Dome is all due and built by the employees of MDOT that just do a really good job, each one in their special schedule area of, um, bringing everything to fruition. So, we're, we're real proud of that.

(Will) Absolutely. And I mean, it goes without saying, obviously, we're very proud of our folks and no, uh, no lack of, uh, gratitude and praise to heap on them for sure. But I think also part of that, too, is what we've been able to do or what you as the executive director have been able to sort of facilitate here, right? I think the agency's in a better spot even than 12 months ago. Not that we were in a bad one, but lots of successes as far as staffing and pay as well, right?

(Brad) Yeah, I’m very, very pleased with the progress we've made in trying to get fair wages for all of our employees That's something that has been a priority of the leadership here for the last three and a half years and something we hope to continue doing into the, um, future.

But, you know, as far as our ability to do more, Senator Cochran used to say that people are normally down on what they're not up on. And I think what we have been able to do is educate the legislative leadership on not just what we do at MDOT, but also how we do it, how our budget works. Uh, and that has equipped them to be better suited to know how to help us because it's not just that we get the money, but it's how we get the money. That's important for us to be able to, to deliver, uh, through working with federal highway and others. So, uh, my hat's off to everybody that goes the extra mile and trying to make all of that happen.

(Paul) Perfect. Perfect. And I know we want to keep that momentum going in 2025, crazy. The legislative session will be here in just really a few weeks. Um, you've talked all year ad nauseum I know that's the big legislative priority. You kind of want to reiterate that a bit?

(Brad) Yeah, I mean, you know, what we do at MDOT is we're a state agency, but we implement a federal program. And it's a reimbursement program. Our partners with Federal Highway Administration, they are in control of the federal dollars that make up for half or a little better than half of our budget, but we have to spend our state funds first, and they have to see that we're doing things in accordance with their rules and regulations and to their standards.

And when they're able to ascertain that, then they reimburse us with the federal money. So, our program is one that we run as a reimbursement type of deal. Recurring revenue is the only way that a program like that can, can function properly and properly be planned out. Uh, in addition to that, you think of our partners in the private sector, all the contractors and people that actually help us do the work, that get the bridges built and the, uh, highways widened and do all of those things.

Well, the contractor's not gonna take out, uh, loan on a multi-million dollar crane if they can't see that the work's going to continue coming years into the future and that they're going to have enough work to be able to meet the bank note on that piece of equipment. So, again, it's not just that we get the money, but how we get it is extremely important and vital and impacts our ability to better run the program.

So, in the past, we've dealt with the legislature, and they've been very kind to give us a lot of one-time money that has helped us escalate the capacity program. They've given us ARPA money this last session that was able to supplement our paving programs around the state. But hopefully, the conversation This coming session is going to be more about how do we go into the funding model that MDOT has and modernize it.

We haven't modernized our funding model since 1987, which was the last time the fuel tax was adjusted. Now, we have had things like the lottery that gives us 80 million a year, uh, the fees on electric and hybrid vehicles that have come about in the last few years. Um, but when you're running a billion-and-a-half-dollar budget, 80 million doesn't go that far right now.

Uh, we're running about a $485 million deficit in our man, uh, maintenance program. We would need another 100 and 150 million a year to be able to continue the capacity construction program out into the future. And I think that the only way that, that that can be brought to us for us to be successful would be for us to look at a diversified manner in which multiple streams of revenue could be identified within the state budget that could be sent to us.

And as I've said before, I think that can be done without raising anybody’s taxes, it just takes a recognition that this is a core function of government upon which all other functions of government rely and, uh, just making it a priority. But the conversation that we hear coming out of both the Senate and the House is extremely encouraging.

Speaker White and Chairman Trey Lamar and Chairman Steve Massengill on the House side have been actively pulling data and looking at opportunities and ways that, uh, that they can try to help take care of this funding issue for us and take care of infrastructure into the future. Uh, the Lieutenant Governor's staff stays in almost constant contact with us, doing the same thing, pulling information and data and, uh, and determining what's the most, uh, effective but responsible way in which they can identify a funding stream.

So, I'm hopeful that that will be the, the hallmark of this coming legislative session is that we're once again successful in bringing back the funds necessary for us to carry out more work. But that instead of it being one time money, it's something that can be budgeted, something that can be counted on in a recurring fashion that will allow us to really build out a plan to take care of the needs around the state.

(Paul) Excellent.

(Will) Yeah.

(Paul) I know you've, I know you've said or thrown away some, thrown around some ideas in the past. Are there still anything on the table that maybe –

(Brad) Well, you know, that’s not our job.

(Paul) Sure.

(Brad) I mean, we're not the policymakers. I leave that up to the members of the legislature, but to try to illustrate some concepts for them, you know, uh, we talked about the use tax. That's a revenue stream that, uh, the portions of it that are already obligated are obligated to give to say cities and the counties for infrastructure related purposes. Uh, the gaming revenue in the past was used to help build out some of the, the highways and all to, to allow for people to be able to get to these destination spots around the state on the coast and in other areas.

So, those are streams of revenue right now that the bulk of, uh, flows to the general fund, and the legislature appropriates it out. The portions that have been obligated, as I said, have traditionally touched on infrastructure related things. So, it would not be something out of the blue if they were to take, uh, portions of those two streams of revenue and dedicate that to either maintenance or to the capacity construction program.

Uh, and, and those are just two ideas. I mean, there, there's a host of other things that could be done and there's been legislation that did everything from adjusting the fuel tax, to giving us a portion of the use tax, to making the lottery revenue permanent, and then maybe even increase it, uh, to dealing with the gaming revenue.

So, I mean, there's already been pieces of legislation that did some component of that. So, I'm hopeful that, uh, that you'll see a bunch of the leadership just get together and put their heads together and figure out how can we do this in a diversified way, maybe a little bit of everything so that, um, uh, that collectively you're able to give us the kind of money that would make a huge difference.

(Paul) That makes sense.

(Will) Yeah, absolutely. I would just, the sort of the negative side of that, if it doesn't happen, I know, um, you know, you can paint a very bleak, bleak picture, um, but I do think factually, right, look, sort of, the Greenville Bypass, I think that's a good example, right, where we just did not have that funding, so it sat on the shelf. And, unfortunately, we could end up in a similar situation with other capacity projects.

(Brad) Right, I think the Federal Highway Administration would like for us to build a system that is looking at traffic projections out 20-25 years into the future, so that we're being proactive instead of reactive in trying to build a system that benefits all of Mississippi and those that wish to travel through here and do business here. Unfortunately, due to the fact that it's been nearly 40 years since there's been any major change in our funding model, uh, there was a 10 or 12 year period of time where the capacity construction program was put on the shelf. There were a handful of projects that were kept alive just for the purpose of being able to apply for federal grants and things like that.

But by and large, the program that was designed to keep traffic congestion from happening on our system and make everything efficient had been sitting on a shelf. So, if you drive through DeSoto County or places in Rankin and Jackson or area or on the Gulf Coast or Gluckstadt on 55, and you run into a lot of traffic, the main reason for that is the very program that's supposed to keep us from getting into that predicament didn't have any funding behind it.

And so, for over a decade, it sat dormant, uh, all the while that money was dedicated to our maintenance because that's where, that's what we're responsible for is protecting the taxpayers, uh, investment of the current system. And, um, if we fall too far behind in hitting those metrics, then we put all of our federal money at, uh, risk.

And so, I think if, uh, you ask what, what happens if the funding is not addressed, I think we're, we're. means the commission would be faced with the same decision that previous commissions have had to make, and that is it does not make sense for us to continue spending millions of dollars on pre-construction of these capacity projects if there's no path to building them and that that money be redirected into the maintenance of our existing system in order to keep it from falling too far behind. And it would be a shame if we ended up back in that place.

And the good news is, I don't think that that's where anybody wants to see us. I think everybody's in favor of progress, but, uh, the leadership of the legislature, we're not the only ones that are coming to the trough, you know, and needing of being fed. And they've got a lot of other interests and, and, uh, other functions of government that they have to take care of.

And I know that that's, uh, a complicated process that they have to go through and taking care of those priorities. But hopefully we'll be successful in showing that neglecting this core function of government will have a negative impact on all the rest. Like we like to say, it doesn't matter how good your schools are if school buses cease to be able to cross bridges, bringing the children to the school or back home. And it doesn't matter how good your health care is if the ambulance gets stuck on the highway on the way to the hospital. So, this is something that can't be ignored. And I believe that more recognize that than not.

(Paul) That’s good. Good to hear that there’s an appetite for the recurring revenue. I know that's the that's the big one for the session. But is there anything else on the docket for MDOT?

(Brad) That's really it. I mean, we'll obviously want to earmark free, uh, appropriation bill where our federal program can be managed, uh, in a more efficient way, where our flexibility is not taken away. They've been kind enough to, to give us that the last three sessions, and I believe that that's something that they'll continue to do. Um, the ability to continue moving salaries and making our wages more competitive, uh, something that I want to be sure that we make sure there's no language put in our bill that would prohibit that or hinder that in any way.

And I don't anticipate a problem with that. But there's a few things like that that will be watching and playing defense on. Um, obviously the, you know, because we're responsible for the highways and bridges that gets a lot of the headlines. But we've also had great success with the Strategic Multimodal Fund that the legislature created a couple of years ago that has been helping our state leverage millions and upon millions of federal dollars and other rail, aeronautics, ports, you know, our public transit. And so, I'm hopeful that, that we'll see some funding go into that account again that, where we can continue making the investment into these other modes of transportation, uh, that, um, we've not always been able to do before.

(Paul) Good stuff.

(Will) Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned leadership a good bit in that conversation, er, in those comments talking about at the Capitol.

(Brad) Senator Jennifer Branning has been, um, a godsend as far as chairmen go of our transportation committee in the Senate. Uh, she took a lot of time to come over here to our offices to spend time with myself and other members of the team so that she could understand our budget, she could understand our federal program, how it works, why things are the way they are. And it made her a tremendous asset for us under the Capitol Dome because she understood everything and had done her homework.

And, um, that that made her really stand out among, uh, the people over there. She was, just been elected to the Supreme Court, so she'll be leaving and will not be with us in the Legislature as of January. I've heard a list of names of potential candidates that would take her place. All of them are members of the Transportation Committee that I've heard of. All of them are friends. All of them are people that I feel like would bring a different sets of talents to the table from one another. But the good news is, is I've not heard of anybody that wouldn't be a passionate proponent of having a good transportation system that covered all the modes of transportation around the state and that wouldn't be a proponent of the agency being equipped to carry out our responsibilities and building and maintaining our highways and our bridges. So, I feel like we'll be in good hands whichever way the Lieutenant Governor chooses to go based on the information that I'm hearing.

(Paul) Good deal. Good deal. Uh, the message is loud and clear. Recurring revenue in 2025. Uh, before we get in the fun questions, there any other message you want to get out to listeners?

(Brad) I can't think of anything. Just again, as we go into the holiday season, uh, we’re very grateful for all the MDOT employees, all of our consultant and contractor friends that, that collectively help us meet our mission and, and get things done. Uh, it's a, a great place to work. It's a family-like atmosphere and, and I really do appreciate everybody and just wish them all the best in this Christmas season.

(Paul) Absolutely.

(Will) No doubt, that is the message out there. As, uh, as we kind of wrap up the end of the episode here, moving to the fun stuff, this will air, I guess, next week or tomorrow, uh, on Tuesday. So, we'll have Thanksgiving in the rears and Christmas on the front end. So, uh, again, it's December. Can't believe it. Time flies. It's about to be just as I was getting all my checks right and actually putting the correct year on them. Now we're swapping it out again. Um, we had a chance to catch up with Steve Mass, uh, Representative Massengill, uh, a little bit. You guys have a good Thanksgiving? Let's ask.

(Brad) We did. It was a good Thanksgiving. I ate too much, but, uh, everybody was healthy and doing well and was able to enjoy, uh, company of our families, so it was good.

(Will) Absolutely. And then moving right on into Christmas, uh, well, first off, I think one of our questions talked about music we always ask, but are you a Christmas music person?

(Brad) Yeah, I like some Christmas music.

(Will) There’s a good many out there.

(Brad) I don't know that I drive around listening to it.

(Will) OK.

(Brad) But when we do the 10th Floor Open House and other things like that, I enjoy having music playing. It kind of puts everybody in the Christmas mood and helps make the atmosphere a little more festive. So yeah, I enjoy it.

(Will) Would you say that you have a favorite Christmas song by chance?

(Brad) No, I don't know. I've gone blank trying to name one, to be honest with you. But, uh I do actually have a Christmas playlist on my phone.

(Will) There you go!

(Paul) Good stuff. Good stuff. Love, love the Christmas music. One last fun question for you, uh, Christmas, uh, food traditions, anything there, do y'all mix it up?

(Brad) No, uh, you know, Thanksgiving is just a big smorgasbord of all types of different food, uh, at my mother's house and at Christmas, uh, it's a steak and baked potato, so we kind of go a little bit different on the grill now, but it's, but it's good.

(Will) Maybe even, I'm going to ask you that a little different too because this was a great answer I feel like from our last guest, but do you have, do you have a favorite Thanksgiving dish?

(Brad) Dressing. Cornbread dressing.

(Will) OK. Do you like the, uh, you want the, uh, what's the cranberry sauce?

(Brad) No.

(Will) Do you want it straight out of the can?

(Brad) I want it plain, and I want it, I don’t want any chunks of anything in it.

(Will) No cranberry sauce. Paul said no congealed activities.

(Paul) No way! No processed foods in 2025. We're cutting it out. I'm just kidding.

(Will) I love it.

(Paul) Well, that's, uh, great. Anything else, Will?

(Will) Yeah, no. I think that’s it from us. folks out there. Listeners, we appreciate you guys. 2024 has been a lot of fun. Uh, we'll hit the ground running with the same vigor and vim, uh, quoting the Grinch right there, uh, in 2025. This will be our last episode for the year. We're going to sort of take off the last half of December and let folks spend time with their families and stop worrying. We're going to stop worrying Drew Hall continually for editing and production. Uh, that's it for me.

(Paul) Good deal. Good deal. Love the, love those words there, Brad. Uh, thank you for joining us and thank you for your leadership.

(Brad) Thank you, Paul. Appreciate it.

(Paul) Yes, sir. All right. Let's wrap things up there. We want to thank our listeners, our viewers for tuning into The Extre Mile Podcast. You can watch and listen to episodes by visiting GoMDOT.com/TheExtraMile. Follow us on social media, @MississippiDOT is the handle there. We want to thank our aforementioned editor/producer Drew Hall for holding things down behind the scenes all year long for us. And remember, drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.

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