MDOT presents the Extra Mile Podcast.

Welcome in to another edition of the Extra Mile Podcast presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I'm Paul Katool, and as always, I'm joined by my cohost, Will Craft. And today, we have a, repeat guest on. We thought he was on, like, two weeks ago. Yeah.

Absolutely. But it was actually, like, two years ago. Mhmm. Overall, good guy. Mark Thomas, he is the state safety engineer here.

Mark, it's it's been a while. Been on the show. How are things going? How's life?

Yeah, I didn't realize until y'all told me that earlier. It'd been two years too, but I guess that's just how life works. Also, thank you for the plug. I'll Venmo you later for that. Absolutely.

Yeah, thank you. That's what was hoping for.

Things are great, man. I'm staying busy, really just continuing to try to do the work and make throws a little safer if we can.

Amen. Love that. Before we dive into, you know, all of our juicy topics here today, just give us a little background again, remind the folks out there who you are specific to MDOT, if you will, or otherwise, if you want to. But, yeah, give us a little background info on yourself.

Who am I outside this building? Very existential. So really, since I came to MDOT in 2012, I've done highway safety work. We used to be a part of traffic engineering the entire time I've worked for the Jim Willis. Obviously, everybody that's listening, all of y'all know Jim.

But we do exactly what the title says. It's highway safety. That's what we do twenty four seven. You know, that's our job. We we operate the state's highway safety improvement program, which is a federally funded set aside or carve out from our federal, appropriations that we get every year.

And that's we fund safety projects. We get crash data from DPS. You know, it's kind of like a, you know, there's a lot of creativity in what we do that we get to go out and look in that data and try to figure out where the issues are. And, you know, one of the things I really enjoy about this work is man, we get to work with everybody at MDOT. I mean, we work with we get to talk to the DEs.

We get to work with the project engineers. We get to work with y'all. There's so many aspects of safety. You know, when you think about the DOT, lot of times you think about just engineering, but there's there's things that go on on what we call the soft side or the nonengineering side that we get to be a part of. So, it's it's bad in that when people ask you what you've been working on and you say, oh, there's just so many things.

It sounds like you're just making that up. But it is true. Like, we we get to be involved in a lot of different things, and I really feel blessed in that. So

Absolutely. Let me ask you this too. So, like, a typical day, not so much the the full day, but, like, what are you guys you you get the crash data or you get an incident, you go out to the highway and you look, maybe evaluate what we can do to make this spot safer? Is that fair?

That's part of it. Yeah. So every night, we get, essentially, a data dump from the Department of Public Safety's you know, their e crash system is the official record, crash data for the state.

Okay.

So we get it in. A lot of people don't know. We actually have a team that cleans that data. They go through and look at a number of elements. You know, our officers have a lot on their plate.

Filling out crash reports is a small part of their job. So from time to time, we may find, hey. This crash was located in the wrong place, or maybe there was something that for our purposes, because we're using it for analysis, that we would change a little bit. So we've got a team that looks at that. You're talking about 70,000 crashes a year statewide.

Most of those are you know, Paul and somebody's grandmother, you know, had a rear end incident in the Kroger parking lot, but minor stuff. But, you know, about forty two hundred of those every year are fatal or serious injury, and those are the ones that we really focus on. So a typical day can be, you know, we provide so that data we provide back to locals. A lot of times when we think about MDI, you're thinking about roadway work and making like the highway safer, but we do a lot of work with our local partners. Trying to help them, giving them the data so that they can pursue projects, but also, you know, funding projects.

Our money is allocated so that we can spend money on local roads. And that's something that we've we've been able to do over the years. But we may, you know, have a conversation with a a district engineer as as much data as we have and as we've got this brand new crash system. Sometimes the best thing you can do is is get local local knowledge on something. Sure.

You may a district engineer gets a complaint or somebody who's working for them. They you know, we went went to the maintenance conference earlier in the year, and we told all the maintenance workers about, like, literally five or six projects we've done that we only knew about because somebody that worked in one of these maintenance barns is like, man, I I keep having to come out here. The you know, I'm having to replace this sign because somebody's running off the road. So having that information has been invaluable. And I I think it just kinda speaks to how much of a team effort this is at MDOT and and the fact that I think even the people who don't realize they're working, you know, to make the roads safer are doing that.

Sure. I love that. Yeah.

That's really, really cool, being able to make that real world impact. And speaking of that, kind of I know you guys work on a lot of projects, but are there some that you wanna kinda highlight? What's what's the big, or are there big projects in the highway safety division?

So we do we have a lot of the state has a lot of four lane rural four lane divided rural highways. The eighty seven four lane program, we talk about that a lot. It was a a blessing for the state economically and moving people around. But one of those things that we've found over the years is some of those at grade intersections have have been problematic. We implement a countermeasure called the restricted crossing u-turn.

It quite a number of of intersections, which is where you if you're on a minor road, you can't cross or make a left. You have to make a right and then make a u-turn. People love them. You know? Obviously, very, very popular when you change somebody's daily drive, they just get excited about it.

But the data shows that it works. We've got numbers that range from, you know, 70 to 90% crash reduction for certain crash types, serious injury crashes. So we, you know, when I started doing this, man, the district engineers are phenomenal to work with. They're the ones that are getting calls about this stuff. They're the ones that have to answer when you do something that doesn't work.

But we had to kinda you know, as you would expect, we had to convince district engineers to let us do this. It was new. What are you asking to do? This is crazy. And we had a lot of them really support us on some of the first ones.

Now we've got district engineers calling us and saying, hey. We've got issues here. I really think an ARCUP would work. And so, man, it's been it's really been awesome to watch that transformation and their understanding that, hey, the data backs us up. You know, they're willing to go out and answer those questions or those, you know, complaints, some with four letters, I'm sure.

Absolutely. You know, what are you doing at this intersection? Because they understand that it will make make things safer. One of the things we're doing with that specifically is the Highway 67 project, which is gonna get kicked off shortly. That was something we started working on years ago with district six, Kelly Casselberry, Gabe Faggard, some names that everybody remembers from district six years ago.

They had had crash issues along that corridor, and it's it's obviously been growing since they built it. And they had a a vision of doing essentially an R Cut system for that entire road, which we would call a super street.

Okay.

And a super street is really you know, it is a system of R Cut, but it's it's giving a driver an understanding that what to you can expect this at every single crossover from one end of this road to the next. And we also did it so that, you know, not just, hey. We're chasing hot spots. That's one thing sometimes we do, but we wanna be there before the crashes you start. That the best thing that we can do in our line of work is, prevention, not reduction.

Absolutely. Because that means nobody has to get hurt. Nobody has to die. So those kind of projects have been really exciting to work on, not just because it's such a massive undertaking, undertaking, but but because because we know that it's going to prevent crashes in the future. And another one that is not nearly that close to construction, but our, pedestrian improvements project along Interstate 55.

Yeah.

A lot of people in this area know it. MDOT got a grant to, so there was a study several years ago looking at we had some crash issues. Believe it or not, people crossing the interstate, getting hit by vehicles in places they're not supposed to be. But I think through that effort, we learned that there were also crash issues on the frontage roads where people were going to be. Yeah.

People that needed to get to grocery stores, people that needed to walk. And so we get, you know, again, blessed and fortunate that the administration supported that. We're able to get that grant, and that that one's got a long way to go. There's a lot of design, a lot of work on the right of way side that has to be done. But I think that's gonna really be a a good project for for people that are, again, needing those facilities.

But as a part of that, we will look to try to keep people from crossing the interstate Sure. As they we would hope that they never would do.

Yeah. I I'm not a big fan of frogger myself, and, certainly wouldn't want a live reaction. Because, I mean, that is, eight lanes? I mean, you gotta get across, I believe. And it is the interstate.

It's the interstate. Nobody's driving 40 out there.

Nope. No. Just don't do it.

Like, the the TikTok trend going around, you know, like, I used to be an athlete. You know? I don't know if I was ever even that good enough athlete to make it across all those lanes unscathed. Yeah. It's a bit scary to think about for sure.

Yeah. No doubt. Hey. Listen. Big, big event that happened today.

That's

right. Yes. We did. We had a a hearing over at the capital. Mark, attended with us on work zone safety.

A little different a little bit of a pivot, I guess, from from pedestrians and and general highway safety, but, equally as important, especially here, with with as many folks as we have in work zones. But some lots of things mentioned today. Work zones, I'm sure that's something you guys focus on in your division as well.

Yeah. We do. And, you know, it is a smaller subset of the crashes that we look at, but, obviously, knowing that that includes our people, our contracting partners, and stuff, you wanna make sure you have an understanding of when you have crash issues in those work zones so those people can be protected.

Yeah. We we definitely heard some, some suggestions on things, some data, though. A little bit of data that was reported. And I did wanna bring this here so I didn't misquote anything. But Mississippi Asphalt Association, shout out to them.

They did some some speed analysis. Mhmm. In work zones and some of these time periods, thought I this was pretty crazy. So this is just daylight hours, basically. But, survey time period, 89% of drivers exceeded the 60 mile an hour limit.

You had 11% of those drivers at least 15 miles over up to 40 miles per hour over. And this is one work zone here. The other couple I'll I'll mention as well, but, 94% of drivers over the park posted speed limit, 40% of those, 15 miles an hour, 65 miles an hour over. And the last one here I won't give the county or the actual, work zone to spare you guys, but, the last one here, 89% of drivers over the 60 mile an hour, 23%, above 15. And just I thought the last this is crazy.

It's not funny, but it's it's wild. A 126 miles per hour clocked in in one of these work zones, a 125 miles an hour in another work zone, and a 100 miles per hour in this first work zone. I mean, very few people seem to be actually adhering to the work zone speeds. It's just, it's a crazy thing to think about. But as a human and as a driver, I mean, I'm just as guilty.

I'm not that guilty, but, you know, you you you run up on the work zone and you maybe don't see anybody out there. You think, well, I can go a little faster through this. But in reality, the the geometry may have changed, that setup of the roadway. I mean, there could be barricades or or or lane closures. For no reason, honestly, should you assume that it's all fine to just go your normal speed.

But is that something you guys have looked at too?

Yeah. And, you know, I was encouraged, first of all, this legislature had that conversation today to hear them thinking about that. Some of the numbers that that we helped share, with MAPPA as a part of that, you know, I don't you know, who would have ever thought there have been over 3,000 crashes and work zones in the last five years? I mean, you know, and that does include people who are crashing in the work zone and not just the workers, but it it shows you kind of the extent of it. And like we talked about earlier, mean, the speed stuff is was truly I don't I don't wanna say shocking.

That's a bit, you know, hyper hyperbolic, but it it was very surprising to hear that. And now I don't work in a work zone every day. We may call some of our construction people, and they may say, yeah. We see that. You know?

Right. But I think it I think it drives home the point that, you know, we we all come in, drive in, and sit in this office every day. There's no cars speeding through where we work every day. And it I think a lot of people forget about that. You you see people all the time on the interstate on their daily commutes.

They just kinda tune out. Like, I feel like there's a lot of that too where people are working. Working. And so

Sure.

Anything that the state can any of the tools that the state can give the DOT, DPS, other partners to enforce and kinda keep those people safe, I I think that's better. So I'm I was encouraged to see all those partners there and kinda having that conversation today.

Yeah. And without getting too terribly much into all the things, I mean, there were several things mentioned, and talked about, obviously, ramping up blue lights, blue light exposure, whether that be actual officers or or a piece of equipment out there with some blue lights. Maybe the most, I guess, taboo, if you will. I don't know if that's the right word, but, the speed cameras. Have you guys ever looked at any data or anything on that?

So I'm familiar with some of, what what the first guy shared today with some of the states that have done that work. I don't have a ton of familiarity with it, but, you know, obviously from our perspective, I see the value in it. I also see the issues when you're with that people would have and some of those concerns were expressed today. I think being that extension, one of the points was made today that thought was good as being that extension, you're not replacing law enforcement, you know, you're, you're essentially complimenting them. You know, we talked about that when we got out of there about DPS has so many thousands of miles of roadway and only so many officers.

How can we augment what they do? You're always gonna have issues when you talk about automation, but, man, I I think that's that could be a great tool in the toolbox, if we're ever given the authority to use that. You know, the other point I think was made today that I thought was a good one was it's not about so many times it's people think about tickets as revenue generation. But the real point of all that is to have to write zero tickets. Right.

Because if you're writing zero tickets, that means it's working. That means that people are enforcing or or following the speeds that you have out there, which means your workers are safer. So, you know, I I understand the concerns from public, but I think sometimes that's something you have to consider and and maybe give some give more weight to the safety aspect of it.

Yeah. And I was I'm gonna stop hogging all the the time here, Paul.

Please. I was not I

was not at this hearing. Well, just, you know, another thing they they mentioned is just throwing these stats out here. In MDOT, we don't have a position necessarily either way on the upcoming legislation if if it happens or not, but there was 19 other states mentioned, that have passed some of these speed camera laws, and they saw 70% decrease, in work zone incidents and and accidents in those work zones. I mean, the numbers, you know, are there. The support is there.

And, again, as as you mentioned, I totally understand the the hesitation. I mean, you know, it's it's not a police state, you know, or anything like that, but the the quote, unquote big brother, you know, watching you. I totally understand that, and I do. And, I mean, I I would be the last one that would or I'd be the first one upset if if I was improperly ticketed or or got a ticket when I really didn't believe I was speeding in that area or something. So totally understand that.

I thought it was interesting. The Kentucky, I believe it was, their DOT or their state has the legislation. It's not automated, but it is an officer, sitting at the beginning of a work zone who is doing the radaring. And then, you know, if you're if you're clocked going above that that threshold, that speed limit, there's an additional officer at the end of the work zone who then stops you and gives you the ticket. And, again, as you mentioned, I mean, I can't imagine and I I don't know off the top of my head how many work zones we have active in the state on a daily basis, but that would take a lot of officers Right.

From their normal routines. So no answers per se, but it will be interesting to see what the legislature decides to do. And, obviously, we'll be very supportive of that and and and continue to help our partners out there. We all want safe work zones. We all want safe highways.

Oh, for sure. And you mentioned, I know you're not out there on the on the highways every day, and we most certainly aren't. But when we have been on video shoots or that sort of thing for safety videos, it's scary. Mhmm. And to hear that someone's going a 100 miles an hour plus in a work zone, it is not worth it, folks.

Slow down and help help save some lives.

I don't know that I've ever been a 126 miles per hour. No. I don't think I've ever driven that fast. That sounds scary.

But On just a straight road with no work on it, let alone with one with cones and everything else.

I can't even imagine.

Yeah. No. Thank you. Well, lots of good information on the safety side of things. Hey, let's let's have some fun.

That's right.

It's, it's college football season. I know I know we haven't really brought this up with other guests, but I know that that Mark is a big college football fan, and he, goes to a different away game every year and just came back from, big Mississippi State fan and just came back from Columbia, Missouri. I know the game didn't turn out, but how how was it?

Yeah. Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers. So, you know, we started doing this in 2022 with some friends of mine. And it's yeah. I grew up in Mississippi State, and I grew up in Starkville.

Like, I tell people all the time, like, you can't hurt me at this point. Right? Like, the game itself is not I mean, you get disappointed like we all do, but, you know, it's really become kind of a tradition and more about getting to see some guys that I don't always get to see, but getting to experience different SEC, venues and crowds and kind of seeing how it's different. Missouri was an interesting ones, you know, maybe not. We went to Tennessee the year before that and then Texas A and M two years before that.

So a little different than those, but, you know, beautiful area of the country. I did not know that there was that much flat land between Memphis and St. Louis. I do now. And but, because we went up that way and then went over, but, had a great time.

Really enjoyed the trip. Had a lot of great food. That's another, you know, obviously perk of traveling to these SEC places. There's tons of good places to eat and stuff. And, you know, I had to endure 15 to 45 QB runs at the game to, you know, after that.

But other than that, it was a great experience.

That's awesome. And, so this episode is being recorded on November 18. So we got a little while for the Egg Bowl. And, let me tell you, Ole Miss fan here, I know we're ten and one, but that that game, throw the records out the window. I am I am, I'm I'm worried.

Yeah. Yeah. I think you do have to. It's always a close game. I don't think it will be this year necessarily, but I if the roles were reversed, we would be the same way.

It's like, you know, the you're never comfortable against your rival because it's such a wacky series. I mean, you know, we talk all the time about the games where, you know, a lot the Elijah Moore game, some of these games that have come in years past and how they they really impacted beyond our robbery into the college football landscape. But just a couple of weirdos playing, I guess, not on Thanksgiving Day anymore, now the day after.

True. Well, look. I mean, I'm I'm a Southern Miss guy myself, and I'll I'll give our our props here in just a minute. But, you know, I do think Ole Miss has got the program this year. State's been doing well also, but, you know, you throw in the curveball.

I mean, Paul might not have a coach come back, but we we don't know yet. You know, there's rumor mill going out there. I think I saw Pat McCaffey today. A little bit of an interview on there. But Yeah.

Paul, what's your what do you give it a fifty fifty if we still got Kiffin?

Yeah. I think it's $50.50. Obviously, I want him to stay. He's done taking us to unprecedented heights, but I've got Lane Kiffin fatigue. Dude, make up your mind, man.

Like, just just do something.

This is you realize where this ends, right? This ends. He's going to come out at halftime at the egg bowl on our field with three races And he's gonna do this bachelor style. You know? I mean, he's gonna have the eighties out there because that's what Lane does.

You know?

As a Southern Miss fan, I'll support that. I think that'd be entertainment for the masses. No doubt.

It'll distract me from the beatdown that's probably happening in the game, so I'll I'll be I'll be invested in it for sure.

Oh, goodness. Yeah. We'll just start our own college football

That's right.

Show after this.

That's true. This really is. Well, on that note, little shout out to the to the dirty birds down in Hattiesburg. Absolutely. We got walloped this past weekend.

Little bit of a shocker there, but appreciate coach Huff. I know he's such an avid listener to the MDOT Podcast program here. But, shout out coach Huff doing doing the Lord's work down there. We we do appreciate it very much.

Well, I think, I think we should just wrap things there. Let's do it. You know? Food and music question, forego those. College football is more important.

Mark, thank you so much for joining us. Lots lots of good information as always. Thank you all

for having me again.

Absolutely. We'll wrap things. Thank you to our listeners, our viewers for tuning in to the Extra Mile Podcast. You can watch and listen to episodes by visiting goand..com/theextramile. Follow us on social media at Mississippi DOT is the handle.

We wanna thank our editor producer Drew Hall, another Mississippi State fan for holding things down behind the scenes. Remember to try smart out there on Mississippi Highways.