The Extra Mile Podcast
MDOT State Safety Engineer Mark Thomas

(Announcer) Coming up on this episode of The Extra Mile…

(Mark Thomas) That has been a very successful project. It has functioned well. Um, it has reduced the crashes in a manner that we hoped it would. Um, so really since then, that, that was the one that kind of helped us open the door and, and show the people that we talked to about these kind of projects that this can work and it can be successful, you know, not just from reducing crashes, which is the main benefit, but also how it operates. We’re not - you know, the goal of MDOT is to move cars from A to B safely.

(Announcer) Hey, football fans! Game day is here. To avoid delays on the way to the game, make sure the MDOT traffic app is part of your playbook. To avoid fumbles this season, MDOT encourages safe driving. That means buckle up, obey the speed limit, and avoid distracted driving, especially in work zones. For more information, follow @MississippiDOT on Facebook and Twitter.

[Music and Intro]

(Paul Katool) Welcome into another edition of the Extra Mile Podcast presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I'm MDOT Deputy Director of Public Affairs, Paul Katool, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Will Craft, the Director of Public Affairs at the agency.

Listen, a few episodes back mentioned it. We appreciate all of our guests on the show, but it's really nice to be able to feature some of our own folks, our hardworking, talented engineers, other positions here. And we've got a great one on the show today. We've got State Safety Engineer Mark Thomas, who really worked his way up in the agency - started as an Engineer-in-Training. I see he was, uh, uh, Safety Engineer, Assistant State Safety Engineer, and now, now in charge of the Highway and Rail Safety Division. So, Mark, thank you so much for coming in and speaking with us today and being a part of the Extra Mile Podcast.

(Mark) Sure. Thanks for having me here. I'm sorry you couldn't find anybody that met some of those criteria, like talented and, um, all that, but glad to be here to talk to y'all.

(Paul) No way, no way. You are, you are the man, Mark. So, listen, we'll just get started right off the bat. Tell us about your position and really about the, about the division, the Highway and Rail Safety Division.

(Mark) Okay, so we're, we had, we're a fairly young division. We've, we've only been our own division since 2019. We used to be a part of Traffic Engineering. Like you mentioned, we're a subsection of Traffic. Um, we split off as Highway and Rail Safety Division. We have since shed the rail part. So, in four years, we've managed to change names twice. So, um, but we, we focus - it's right there in the name. Our, our job full-time, 40 hours a week, is highway safety.

Um, one of the things I think that people don't know about what we do is, you know, we think highway safety, we're working at MDOT, you think about state roads, we're working on interstates, state highways. Um, which, that is true, that's a large part of what we do and what we focus our time and attention on, but we actually cover all, uh, public roadways. Um, we operate for the state, uh, what's called the Highway Safety Improvement Program, um, which is a federal program that’s a part of, pretty much every funding legislation that I can remember. We have dedicated funding through that, but we also are charged with that task, which is trying to, um, um, improve safety within the state by reducing fatal and serious injury crashes on all public roads. So, that's something we definitely take serious.

(Will) What does that look like? So, I mean, um, you know, when you guys are getting ready, are you just analyzing a project that's upcoming? How can we, you know, improve or add safety features to this route, or is it existing routes? How does that, when you guys get involved on projects?

(Mark) It takes a lot of different shapes. So, um, because we have our own dedicated funding source, we have the opportunity to go out and identify our own products using crash data. So, the Department of Public Safety is the official record keeper for all crashes in the state. They have what's called the eCrash system, which if, if a sheriff goes out and works a wreck, if MHP works a wreck, when they're done with that, that information goes into their database.

Every night, we get a copy of that, um, through an agreement we've had with them for years. The pub- the personal information is not taken in our system, but we get, you know, what happened in the crash, what, what were the contributing circumstances, and we look at those through our own analysis purposes to try to find, you know, where do you have hot spots, where do you have issues. And then we go out and either identify a project that we can find, um, or we, you know, the district may bring us something: “Hey, we've got an existing project we have planned. Um, what safety components can we add to it?”

Um, and, and that's really been something we've been fortunate to see, especially in the last couple of years. We have had so much support for what we do. Um, from administration, the DEs, really every division that we work with, to reach out to us proactively and say, “hey, how can we incorporate safety into this project even if it's not an HSIP project?”

(Will) And, uh, forgive me, we may bounce around a little bit here, but I think, as I mentioned, I'm going to be a true student for this show because I have lots of questions that I actually do not know the answers to. Um, so, you know, as you mentioned roadways, highways, you'll get into like pedestrian safety too, right?

(Mark) Yeah. Yeah, pedestrian safety is actually a big focus right now. It's, it's been a focus for Federal Highway and our federal partners, um, and it's something that we've taken seriously too, um, within the state now. You know, as we'll talk about a little bit, October that's coming up is Pedestrian Safety Awareness Month, but, you know, our pedestrian issues in the state are somewhat unique, and that's something that we've tried to convey and also reach out to other states.

That's a good part of this job, is there's, there's one of our group in every state, so we try to use each other to say, hey, are y'all seeing this in your state? How are you addressing it? Um, when you think about pedestrian crashes, you think about, you know, you're in a downtown area like where we are here. Somebody crosses at a crosswalk, and they may be unfortunately hit by vehicle. In Mississippi, we're a rural state. So, pedestrian crash issues in our state may mean somebody was walking the edge of a roadway at 2 a.m. when it's dark, they've got a dark shirt on, and they were unfortunately hit by a car side swipe, whatever that may look like.

So, you know, it's a challenge. Um, a lot of these things, um, as an engineer, it's a problem you're trying to solve, and there's a lot of good resources out there that have answers for us, but that has been one of the things that we've been, we've been working hard to try to identify lately. But um, it's certainly a challenge to try to figure out how to fix those unique issues.

(Paul) If you pay attention to the news, it seems like people are trying to cross the interstates too. That seems to be a problem, correct?

(Mark) Yeah, we're seeing some of that, um, we've even seen it here in the metro area. Where people make that unfortunate decision, you know, it's actually illegal to cross the interstate. Those roads are designed fully access, uh, with, with no access allowed. It's access control, excuse me, I got my words twisted there. And the intent is to move vehicles, right? Um, and so, by introducing a pedestrian into that environment, it creates a big issue.

You know, speed is a big factor we talk about. Really in any crash, the higher the speed, the worse the severity can be. It kind of makes sense when you think about it because the kinetic energy in a vehicle when you're driving at certain speeds, speeds are nowhere, they're not higher anywhere in the state than they are on interstates.

Something we've been trying to get our arms around. How do we tackle that? How do we reach out to those groups that are making those decisions and try to Encourage them not to do that, but also, are there any things that we can potentially put out there on our own to prevent them from doing those things?

(Paul) Please don't cross interstate.

(Will) Yeah, that’s exactly right.

(Paul) Please do not do it.

(Will) Uh, and then, you know, talking about pedestrian and, and otherwise, before we kind of get further into the October specifics of it, safety project types, I think you may have touched on that already. But what kind of different, you know, types of projects are you guys working on? I think you kind of, you know, you've, you've talked about some of those, anything we've missed, I guess, maybe I should say?

(Mark) Sure. So, this is a broad generalization, but our projects mostly break down into two buckets, which is intersection projects and section projects. So, when you think about a rural road, I don't know where you guys are from in the state, there's probably a rural two-lane highway that goes from the interstate out to where you used to live or the small town we may be from.

Um, we look to improve those, and that's mostly to try to treat, you know, lane departure crash issues, which somebody runs off the road, hits a tree, somebody crosses the center line and hits another vehicle. That's a lane departure crash. Um, and when we do a lot of statewide analysis, that's a crash that we see, it's very common.

Um, and again, we're talking about speed. Speeds are higher out there, so it's, a lot of times it results in more severity, so that's a priority for us, is how do we reduce those crashes? How do we prevent them?

Um, and the other one is intersections. Again, we spend a lot of time in rural areas because that's where our severity is the highest. We keep going back to speed, but we, we do things in rural areas that may range from roundabouts, which we'll talk a little more about, um, a restricted crossing U turn or an R cut, or a J turn that's commonly known, which is access control at a four-lane divided highway. That's something that we've used a lot out of our toolbox, especially in the last couple of years has been very effective.

Um, we can do anything from, you know, signal upgrades, trying to make improvements at existing signals. Um, there's, there's a wide range of things that have a safety benefit that we either try to take on ourselves or incorporate into other MDOT projects.

(Will) Well, let's pick right up. You talked - you mentioned roundabouts. How have you guys utilized those and seen the, the effects pay off?

(Mark) Yeah, so it's, it's been a great tool for us. Um, roundabout is, they're such a unique animal in that they serve so many different benefits. Like, we, you know, our main focus is safety and there's, you know, tremendous documented, um, benefit for that nationwide. Federal Highway's done a number of studies. There's a lot of information out there that's publicly available that talks about how successful they are at reducing those fatal and serious injury crashes. But there's also a lot of operational benefits. Um, they can handle a lot more traffic, I think, than people know.

So, by using those in a lot of places, we're able to, you know, serve multiple purposes. You know, a lot of times when we get calls, the first thing is, “well, can we get a signal out here? Can we get this?” I think that's the way people have been conditioned. But one of the things we're trying to work on is, you know, using roundabouts where they're appropriate, um, to treat the crash issues and, and for the roadway environment, but trying to normalize that so that people get more comfortable with 'em.

Um, you know, we, we've been preaching, and I think Brian even talked about it in the video, we, he did for MDOT. You know, the rules of roundabout are much simpler than they are signal. We're just all used to signals. So, um, our hope is that through the normalization of those and putting them out in more communities where they're needed, that eventually people will come to appreciate them and even like them, which, which is what we've seen in areas where we've been able to install them so far.

(Will) I'm a huge fan. You're supposed to hit that thing about 65, right? Just kidding.

(Mark) I'll be looking for a crash report in our system for you sometime soon. Will Craft.

(Will) Full disclaimer: don't do that. But, um, I did one to recently just, uh, I was talking about, I had lunch with a guy from Hattiesburg today who was heaping praise on the just finished one, uh, roundabout coming into downtown. What is there, any others that kind of y'all just wrapped up where you've, you've, you've seen that improvement already? Reduction of crashes? I know that's asking a very specific question of you.

(Mark) Sure. Sure. So, one of the flagship ones and kind of the one, of the ones that we were initially able to break through in a rural setting, uh, was Highway 27 at Lee Avenue outside of Crystal Springs. That was one where we had um, some very tragic circumstances surrounding a fatal crash there, and they're all very sad. When you, when you do what we do long enough, you, you want to know the information about the people who lost their lives because it makes it personal and it makes you motivated to try to reduce those and fix those issues.

And there were some tragic circumstances around that one and, you know, all the credit to, to Kevin McGee, who was the district engineer at that time. That was not an easy thing for him to take on because he was, that was going to be one of the first in the state. But he, he stepped up, you know, Brian Hovanec and, and others worked hard on that.

And, and to the credit of the mayor at that time, I'm not sure if she's still there or not, but she bought in. And that, that has been a very successful project. It has functioned well. Um, it has reduced the crashes in a manner that we hoped it would. Um, so really since then, that, that was the one that kind of helped us open the door and, and show the people that we talk to about these kind of projects that this can work and it can be successful, you know, not just from reducing crashes, which is the main benefit, but also how it operates. We're not, we, you know, the goal of MDOT is to move cars from A to B safely. If you can't move them from A to B in an efficient manner, that, that is a big part of it, and it's something we take into consideration.

But it, again, roundabouts have so many operational benefits that, that you can usually easily meet that goal.

(Will) I'll take it over a red light any day.

(Paul) Personally, I'm with Will. Big fan of roundabouts myself. And you mentioned it, a video. Go to @MississippiDOT. Facebook, Twitter. There's a really great video that you mentioned. Brian Hovanec as well, my fraternity brother. He did the video. And it'll sell you on roundabouts. Go check it out. Facebook and Twitter. It's really, really great.

I'm gonna move on a little bit. So, there's a safety education element to what you guys do in your division. So, there's a team that will go out do things like rollover simulators. I think there's even some kind of drunk driving –

(Mark) That’s right.

(Paul) – simulator. Talk about uh, talk about that program.

(Mark) So we've got a really great group that does safety education for us full time. And the target is really to get into schools. That's, that's where we're looking to get, and you know, events that are surrounding kids at younger ages who are either coming into, you know, being ready to drive, or, I mean, even those kids that are just passengers. We're trying to explain to them, uh, the consequences of not wearing your seatbelt, of, you know, distracted driving, drinking and driving, those kind of things.

And we're able to use some of the tools that we have, the, the convincer, the rollover simulator, the, the drunk driving goggles, those kind of things to actually show them what the consequences of those are. Sometimes it's, I mean, we were all kids once, right? Somebody shows up and they're all buttoned up and they tell you something's bad and you're like, “whatever, man, I just want to go back to the third period” because, you know, just get the day over with.

But if you can show them the effects of that, I think it's more effective. And that's something that's important to us because you know, we're seeing that if you can impact that next generation, number one, they're going to go to their parents and their grandparents and try to change their habits, which is often harder to do than it is at a younger age. But we're also trying to get people bought in and their generation so that as they grow up, they can continue that cycle and we can have less people doing those kinds of risky behaviors.

(Will) Yeah, I mean, so Paul mentioned the rollover simulator. Is that, do we do that specifically? We, we participate with that?

(Mark) Mm-hmm.

(Will) I would, I need to go experience the rollover simulator. Are you physically in something or is it like 3D?

(Mark) Well, there's a dummy that's in the vehicle that shows you, you know, as they spin the cab, you can see the –

(Will) Oh! I see. Now you’re gonna - I'm gonna expose myself very silly here, so I'm, I want to simulate being in the rollover, you know.

(Mark) You actually wanted to get in the rollover and be thrown out.

(Will) Yeah, you know, like in, at the, uh, fair ride or something, you know. I don't want to be thrown out. Come on.

Uh, but, you know, all that stuff, and I completely agree. I think, uh, we've talked about this on the show before, at some point, and don't quote me on these statistics or... charting here, but, uh, it seems like I remember looking a couple years ago and, you know, we've got lots of conditions and things that affect people in the modern world and especially in America, but things like traffic fatalities were still, you know, some of the highest, uh, fatality rate things that we were dealing with as a country.

And I really feel like there's just been a lot lost on driver education for young folks. It's almost kind of like, “Great, you're 16, you go up here, you pass this test, get your license, figure it out as you go.” Which is horrifying, a little bit. I think of Elon, you know, to quote a, give, uh, Elon Musk a shout out here. Uh, but, like he said, “you know, 20, 30 years from now we might look back and be, you know, just mystified that everybody drove 2,000-pound death machines. We just gave licenses out.” But, um, yeah, I love the further education on the young folks and talking about, uh, you know, remember being in high school, some of us still look like we're in high school, apparently I keep getting, uh, I keep getting aged down here, but, uh –

(Paul) Sunshine.

(Will) – yeah, Sunshine. I'll take it though. Um, Before I forget talking about, you know, kind of moving forward as well, but talking about safety education, one of the big programs that you guys have coming up October, um, I know we've talked about it, but Buckle Up Phone Down. I think that kind of fits hand in hand what we're talking about.

(Mark) It does. Um, and, and a little bit about Buckle Up Phone Down. I, I became aware of it last year. We were at an AASHTO meeting and a representative from Missouri DOT was there. And that's actually where it was born. Um, and, and it's a simple thing. I mean, it's literally there in the title. The goal is to try to, um, increase awareness and try to get people bought in, make commitments to every time they get in the vehicle, the first thing they do is that they buckle their seatbelt and they put their phone down.

Um, and, and even here in the state, you know, the reasons why we've talked with y'all and others within MDOT about the importance of buying into that is because our own crash data bears that out as an issue here in the state. Um, we're actually in the process of, um, completing our newest, uh, Strategic Highway Safety Plan, and we've done the data analysis as a part of that. In the last three years, over 50 percent of the fatalities and serious injuries in the state: It had been either a driver or an occupant that was not wearing their seatbelt. So, you know, we, we do all these surveys that say, well, 90 percent of people in this state are wearing their seatbelt. But we can show, um, unfortunately, with the crash data that the consequences are very real for those things.

Now it's, it's more difficult to track, um, whether or not somebody was distracted. Um, for the officer, a lot of times, especially when there's a severe injury, you know, you, you can't ask somebody who's unfortunately passed away if they're using their cell phone. There's not a lot of legal backing of that. Even if they're, you know, in decent shape, a lot of people are not going to admit to an officer that they were using their phone, but, but we all know anecdotally that's an issue. I mean, I ride in on the interstate every morning and I can look over to my left or right and see somebody who's doing 75 miles an hour with their phone here, which is just perplexing.

Um, but again, that is why we, we feel like the program is so important and why we're wanting to participate in the state is because it's an important message and one that we think can be impactful towards those things.

(Will) And I want to, shameless - this is my phrase here - but shameless self-plug here talking about, you know, buckling up and being properly situated in the vehicle. Car seats, kids, you know, toddlers, little ones. Um, I have, I've, I've, you know, done it myself. We're just going right down the road. We don't have to clip in and worry about it. But many of you might know, uh, my wife being a pediatric ER nurse over at Batson. You know, she tells us over and over, um, every time they see a kid or, you know, some of them come in with a crash, you know, the vehicle might just look like a crunched up box of paper. Uh, but that car seat was held intact and it's fine. The kid’s gonna be fine, you know. Over and over and over and over again when they see that.

Um, so buckle the kids up, put them in the car seats. Same concept: Buckle Up, Phone Down. I know it's an extra step, sometimes not quite as easy, but in the event the worst of worst happens, everybody's gonna be safe. You know, hopefully.

(Paul) Three seconds to save your life, right?

(Will) Yeah.

(Mark) Absolutely. And a lot of people don't know you can go to your local fire stations. There's a lot of resources where people will literally make sure the car seat is put in correctly for you. So, a lot of people feel the pressure: “Well, I don't know how to do this right.” But it's worth that trip to make sure it's done correctly.

(Will) I can't imagine. Yeah, that's a tough scenario to come through afterwards.

Um, and just piggybacking small off of that note, we do have Halloween coming up, we've been talking about pedestrian safety and whatnot. So, um, you know, be on the lookout for the trick or treaters, right?

(Mark) Absolutely.

(Will) Keep the headlights on. I think I remember a couple years ago there being a couple of incidents of, you know, folks getting in accidents and whatnot with pedestrians and kids walking, so just something to be aware of. What else? Can you think of anything else maybe to be aware of that's coming up? Oh yeah, what we were talking about with the savings time, uh, coming up.

(Mark) And those two things are, are tied together. I think it's important to hit on how impactful they are on each other. You know, dark crashes, especially for pedestrians, pedestrian crashes seem to increase at nighttime. Um, the ones that we do see at nighttime, a lot of times it mentions that there's, you know, the pedestrians wearing dark clothing. So, we always encourage people if you have to walk, walk as far away from the roadway as you can, wear bright clothing, um, just make yourself aware, make the driver aware that you're there as much as you can.

And on the driver's side, just be aware of that, um, a lot of us, you know, we're making the same drive every day. We kind of, it becomes background noise. It's muscle memory. We're just, “I've been on this road every day.” But, but the pedestrians - we're almost starting to use this tactic of telling people you need to expect pedestrians where you would never expect them because we're starting to see that be the case, whether it be on the interstates, whether that be walking a roadway at 2 a.m. I mean, that's, you almost have to expect the unexpected in that regard.

(Will) It's like, uh, I think Tom Hardy, you know, said it once a couple weeks ago or a couple months ago, you know, “I look both ways before I cross a one way street these days” because you just never know. But yeah, absolutely.

Deer crossings, um, again, kind of the thought process with daylight saving times coming around. It could get dark a little earlier, so be on the lookout for anything and everything that may be hopping out, kids included. Hopefully they'll all have their pumpkins and outfits on, you know, have that orange reflectivity, but definitely be on the lookout out there.

(Paul) Do it for the kids. Before we move on to some fun questions, just, I want to reiterate the distracted driving thing. I know you kind of mentioned it earlier, but it's absolutely insane. Like, I think it was yesterday morning, I'm looking over and like you said, there's someone literally driving, staring down. That is so dangerous. So, stop it, right?

(Mark) Right, and, and, and every year when we make this play, I do it personally too, and I tell people “I'm, I'm just as guilty of it as you are, like, none of us are perfect.” I don't ever want it to sound like preaching. It's very easy to, to look down real quick because it's, you know, it's just one quick check of your phone, but that's all it takes. That's what we try to remind people, and I think that's, the importance of that campaign is that if you, if you actively think about it every time you get in the vehicle, then you're more aware of it than just saying, “Oh, okay, whatever. This is nothing.”

(Will) And the only thing that I'm doing 100 percent on this conversation is the seatbelt. And that's because I got a seatbelt ticket in college. And now for whatever, every time I sit down in the car, it's just, I can't help it. But it's a good, good problem to have, I suppose.

(Mark) Yeah.

(Paul) Sure.

(Will) Yeah.

(Mark) So any cops in Will’s area, if you want to write him a distracted driving ticket, uh - you need to go ahead and give your address out real quick.

(Paul) Whoa!

(Will) They're going to catch me lacking out there now. Well, fun questions coming up on board. The stuff that we ask everybody, uh, maybe the most difficult to answer by, by some accounts. And at some point we're going to break this out. We're going to get some MDOT polls and opinions. We'd like to know kind of what the listeners, what their favorites are with the folks in the building.
Um, but for right now, we're going to ask Mark some of his favorites. Um, I don't know how often you get to get out and get around the state so much, uh, as some of our other guests maybe, but, uh, a local place to eat that you're, you get to eat. You may be a hole in the wall, not a, not a super popular place, any, anywhere around the state or, or locally here that you just gotta get to?

(Mark) There's a lot of good ones. It's not a hole in the wall, but I'm from Starkville. I went to school there, but I grew up there as well. And go back a good bit, um, unfortunately for football games, but also to see family. Um, but Two Brothers, man, has never disappointed. Two Brothers. That's great food. in Starville, really one of my favorite places to eat statewide.

I don't have a good off the top hole-in-the-wall place. I love those where you can find them, where it's just grease on the walls and it's in like a plastic, you know, paper bag or something. But, um, there, there is a lot of - that's one thing I've enjoyed about this job is we get to travel a lot around the state and you find those places. I enjoy that part of it.

(Will) Two Brothers. That's a first answer, first time answer on the show. I haven't heard that.

(Paul) It's a good one. And as an Ole Miss grad, I will vouch for Two Brothers’ smoked meats. It's delicious.

(Mark) That’s a strong endorsement.

(Paul) It is great. We'll have to hit it up next time we visit Starkville.

(Will) Shameless - uh, I don't know why I can't stop using the word shameless - but a plug for a local place. I actually went to Vicksburg yesterday and was at the Southern Biscuit Company. So, just talking about random places I came across. I mean, it kind of looks like a hole-in-the-wall. I mean, because it is literally on the side of a hill and it's one door. You can easily miss it. It was fantastic, so Southern Biscuit Company in Vicksburg, Two Brothers in Starkville. Fantastic places to shop, uh, stop in and get a bite.

Uh, keeping the vibe the same there: music. Uh, you got a favorite musician, favorite band?

(Mark) Um, probably Chris Stapleton if I had to pick an individual artist, a band. I have listened to more like the, I guess they call it Texas Country, but that kind of scene, um, and really listen to a lot more 90s country now, to be honest with you.

(Will) That's what I'm talking about. “Two Dozen Roses.”

(Mark) If it's not broken, you know, just break out the Shenandoah. I've got some friends that we've got a running joke about on Friday. I'll just send them a snap of whatever's playing, you know, on my computer at work when I get in. I've just got a 90s podcast, er, playlist, so, um –

(Will) I love it.

(Mark) – go with the old stuff.

(Will) I love it, yeah. And, uh, alright, what about the last one here? A concert. You got a favorite concert you've ever been to?

(Mark) Um, I saw Cross Canadian Ragweed, um, in Starkville years ago. There used to be a place called the State Theater, um, and it was downtown, it was right on Main Street. I've heard rumors that it's coming back. It's been back and then dead and back over the years, um, since I was in school, but it was like a random midweek night they were playing. Um, and they're, they're one of these bands that's really good live, but it was just, it was, that was an enjoyable place to see a concert. But it, it was one of those things where I didn't have high expectations. I mean, I thought they'd put on a good show, but it was just, it was really good from start to finish.

And then Black Crows played years ago at the, at Bulldog Bash. Um, and they were fantastic. I mean, you know, obviously this was not, I mean, it's probably been more years than I care to admit, but this was in the latter part of their career, obviously, but they were still just absolutely great.

(Will) Those are awesome two. Those, those are definitely high up on the list of concert, uh, recommendations or, or, or, uh, answers, I guess, that we've gotten so far. Cross Canadian Ragweed. I haven't thought about them in a while.

(Mark) They're actually - Cody Canada is actually playing at Dueling in December.

(Will) Really? So there you go. Go check it out. Paul's putting one on the list right now.

(Paul) Yes. We're going to 53 concerts this year. That's gonna, gotta be one of them. That's incredible. Looking forward to the Chris Stapleton album coming out a little later, maybe this month, next month.

Anyway, Mark, thank you so much for joining us. We also want to just thank you for everything you do for state, literally keeping people alive. So, thanks for joining us today.

(Mark) Thank you all for having me. I appreciate it.

(Paul) Absolutely. We'll go ahead and wrap things up. We mentioned the social medias earlier, follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, et cetera. @MississippiDOT is the handle.

Of course, you can watch and listen to episodes of the Extra Mile podcast by visiting GoMDOT.com/theextramile. We want to thank our editor, Drew Hall, who's over there. He's making the show run for us. Great guy. Very talented guy. Thank you so much. And remember drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.