(Drew) MDOT presents The Extra Mile podcast.

(Paul) Welcome into another edition of The Extra Mile podcast presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I’m MDOT Digital Media Manager Paul Katool. And as always, I’m joined by my co-host Will Craft. He handles Government and Constituent Affairs at MDOT.

Today, we’re on the road again. We are at The Mississippi Association of Supervisors Fall Workshop in Natchez. And we are on location to talk to northern district transportation commissioner John Caldwell. Commissioner Caldwell, we really appreciate you making time for us.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Thank you, Paul. It’s good to be here.

(Paul) So, just a little bit of information about Commissioner Caldwell. He served; he was elected consecutive terms as a Desoto County supervisor. And he served from 1996 to 2003. And he also has served as a transportation director in school district. Very cool stuff. Was elected northern transportation commissioner. So, can you dive a little bit more into your career? What made you kind of want to get into public service and made you run for northern district transportation commissioner?

(Commissioner Caldwell) Well, it was just a matter of being involved. It’s not a matter of kind of setting your sights on anything that’s elected. But, when you get involved and you care about the community and you start trying to make a difference sometimes those doors open up. And that’s kind of where I found myself when I ran for county supervisor and again running for commissioner.

(Paul) Excellent. Excellent.

(Will) I know a lot of those things. I know your history and the work that you’ve done throughout the past, been supervisor, especially being involved with the transportation aspect of the school districts. A lot of those contributed to the qualities you have now as being the commissioner even military service. I’m sure that went a long way, kind of preparing you, shaping you to be who you are.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Well, the military side is never gonna leave me. And the Marine Corp likes to say, “Once a marine always a marine” and I certainly feel that internally not so much you know as my body gets older, it’s not so much felt externally. But, you do feel that connection and that military service is something I’m very proud of. It’s just a life of service has kind of been where I’ve focused my efforts and the Marine Corp was very good to me.

(Will) Got the big holiday coming up here. Veterans Day is always important to so many folks. I’m sure that has a special meaning for you. Can you kind of speak to that?

(Commissioner Caldwell) Oh absolutely. The Veteran’s Day uh different from Memorial Day honors all Veterans. And you know, we have a friendly rivalry between the services. And of course, we harass the Air Force or the Coast Guard or some of the Army or Navy. So, that friendly rivalry kind of culminates in a November eleventh celebration. And we all get to come together and recognize the fact that there’s people that have gone before us or serving today. And some are serving in peace time, some in war time, some are on the water, some are in an office stuck in the Pentagon. Those people deserve the recognition. It’s a high calling and I really admire the ones that are taking that challenge especially today.

(Will) Mayor of Starkville, we had an interview couple of weeks ago. She had a notion that she thought that you know everybody should serve at least you know one or two years there everybody in the country. So, I mean hey, it may not be a bad idea.

(Commissioner Caldwell) No. I’m one hundred percent against everybody serving.

(Will) Maybe not everybody.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Well, um there is a good argument to be made cause there’s a disconnect between the military service and the civilian world and it’s growing wider as fewer people serve um in percentage terms for sure. And but, when you go through Marine Corp bootcamp and you’re looking around and you’re realizing everybody doesn’t need to be here for sure. And I mean, I’ve got friends and family from brothers and sisters to children you know that haven’t served.

(Will) Sure.

(Commissioner Caldwell) And you know, there’s people who their service is in a different realm and there’s nothing wrong with that. So, trying to drag everybody into the military service, I just don’t think that’s a good solution but there’s a good argument to be made for it cause we are getting a little disconnected from our own society.

(Will) Sure.

(Commissioner Caldwell) So, we need that connection.

(Will) And I myself obviously, I do not have any military service so tons of heaps of admiration for you and the other folks that have gone before us and um a lot of the freedoms we enjoy today. We’ll make sure that’s appreciated Veteran’s Day. This will come out around that time so just remember to thank a veteran for their service and appreciate all that you and all those that have served have done.

(Paul) No doubt. No doubt. Uh, so let’s get into MDOT a little bit. So, obviously, I know there’s a lot going on in the northern district. Is there any projects or kind of initiatives that you want to highlight?

(Commissioner Caldwell) You know, I always hesitate to get into specific projects. Um one because once you mention one highway somebody’s raising their hand for another highway.

(Paul) Absolutely.
(Commissioner Caldwell) And I see that down here at the supervisor’s convention. Everybody’s got their own concerns and they’re all legitimate concerns. So, um you know prioritizing has got to be done. And so, we do pick the ones that have the greatest challenges. And some of those may have a longer timeline to get those challenges addressed.

So, the supervisors, the mayors, the alderman um the state representatives everybody’s got kind of their pet projects that they’re concerned with in their district. But you know the people have their pet projects in front of their house. You know, it’s the highway in front of my house, takes me to my church or takes me to my school or takes me to work. That’s the one that they’re concerned about. And um, their concern is no less importance than mine. So, I try to stay away from the list.

I am glad to see some work getting done. We’ve had some good things happen from the state legislature helping us to the federal government sent us more money down. And good people doing good work to get the projects out. So, we are seeing a lot of orange barrels you know out there and the roads getting worked on. But we’re still, as we work and we get kinda happy with what we’re doing, if you quantify it, we’re still falling behind. So, we have a lot of challenges ahead and so, I don’t want to get too happy with the first three years.

(Will) Sure.

(Paul) You want to talk about some of those challenges and kind of how you’re working to attack them?

(Commissioner Caldwell) Well, the biggest challenge is long term funding for the department. And our challenge is not even good people. We’ve got good people. We’ve got good facilities. We can buy good equipment. We have challenges to actually fund our efforts. And those challenges are not going away anytime soon.
So, we’re trying to take a short term look at what we can do in the near term but also what we’re trying to do long term to find a perpetual source of funding as fuel receipts tend to be dropping with advent of electric vehicles that’s going to continue to happen. And so, we have to figure out how are we gonna fund road repairs, how we’re gonna fund road improvements, how are we gonna face the next generation of roads and what they’re gonna require.

Cause there’s always an improvement whether people use to be happy when the dirt road got gravel. Then the gravel got paved and everybody was happy. And then once it got paved they wanted better stripes and then they want reflectors. Then you know, they need the lanes to be a little wider and the two-lanes need to be four-lanes. And so those kinds of things continue, and we have to look at the future. What is going to be our challenge in the future? And what’s gonna be the road network, the rail, the intermodal side of what we do and how are we gonna address that? And we can’t address it with current funding. And there is no perpetual funding source right now to help us address the future. So, that’s my focus right now.

(Will) Sure.

(Paul) Sure.

(Will) And certainly not the answer uh to that perpetual funding source moving forward but a feather in the cap if you will for here recently the lottery. You seeing a lot of lottery projects in the northern district?

(Commissioner Caldwell) The lottery projects have been priceless. You know, we prioritize the roads that we can get the most out of. So, the ones we can get federal funds for, and we can do an 80-20 split. It was more bang for the buck. What was happening is that some of the two-lane highways that didn’t qualify for federal funds were just getting ignored. So, we've had to um address that, and the lottery funds has helped us do it.

Now, the lottery funds, while very appreciative of $80 million a year, it’s $80 million dollars a year flat. So, it doesn’t cover inflation, it doesn’t cover any kind of improvements or any kind of increase. So, you know, one of the big criticisms of the ‘87 road plan was it didn’t address inflation. It didn’t have an incremental increase. So, the lottery funds did the same thing.

(Will) Right.

(Commissioner Caldwell) You know, so they came in, they capped it at $80 million and we’re getting the full $80 million, but we’re getting less done every year with that same $80 million. So, we are seeing some things happen and the lottery funds was a big uh player in getting some things moving last couple of years. Uh, the new money that the state allocated this year was a you know, I don’t know what we’d be doing without it.

(Will) Right.

(Commissioner Caldwell) It’s just they kept us from from being broke. And so, that’s important and that’s real but it’s one time money.

(Will) That’s right.

(Commissioner Caldwell) And so they can kind of lean and kind of tell us maybe we’re gonna get it again this coming year and maybe we can count on it, maybe we can’t. Uh, is it going to be 100 percent? Is it going to be 90 percent of what they gave us? Is it going to a 110 percent of what they gave us? We’ll never know if they don’t create a perpetual funding source. But at least they’re recognizing the fact that we are short. We need the help from another source of revenue besides the fuel tax.

(Will) You just alluded to kind of my next question the inflation. I mean it’s really the effect on us and the agency. I’m sure it’s you know far wide other folks, but I’m really it’s taking an impact on our construction.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Inflation is hard to explain to folks because not only are we facing inflation with the jobs we’re bidding out currently, you know, we have factors built into our bids that allow us to get lower bids at times. But they have fuel adjustments that they can’t add to it. So, even bids that we approved over a year ago we’re still not done. We’re still spending. Those costs actually go up in the middle of the job. So, we have we have a lot of inflationary pressures that are um they’re going to change our way of thinking.

(Will) It’s been crazy. I mean just to see the prices skyrocket the way they have this year.

(Paul) Absolutely. Well, we really appreciate you breaking down all the funding and some of the challenges and things like that. So, one of the cool things I’ve noticed, I keep up with you on Facebook and I know you’re out and about. You’re uh you know riding the highways, interstates and looking at projects and things. So, let’s kind of talk about the importance of getting out there and seeing things and talking to constituents.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Well, of course the state’s divided into three districts and mine is 33 counties and 11,000 miles. So, there’s really no way for me to do it any other way. I mean I have to cover some ground. I have to get out. I have to see the roads. I have to see the people that ride those roads. It’s almost like a non-stop campaign. I mean you’re stopping at the diners and at the coffee shops. And you’re hearing from them. And they’re telling you things that you might not hear otherwise. So, it’s a valuable process. Uh, it’s it’s a necessary process for me. So, and I enjoy it. I mean it’s that’s a that’s a big part of of my decision to even run and participate in this position you know trying to help those people and listen to those people and trying to make a difference. That’s kind of what it’s all about.

(Paul) That’s awesome.

(Will) Yeah. Branching off a little bit here kind of highlight a fun fact about you. Something maybe everybody, maybe not everybody knows. We’ve got an author in the house today.

(Paul) Yeah.

(Will) Um, you know tell us a little about your book.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Well, the book was a little labor of love that it’s more like a memoir of military service. My father was a Marine in World War II and Iwo Jima and Saipan and…

(Will) Oh wow!

(Commissioner Caldwell) And that’s um he kept a lot of the stories to himself. And and so we didn’t hear a lot of it and he’s passed away since. Uh, and it kind of woke me up to the fact that you know, I don’t really tell a lot of stories either. So, I started to put them together and put them on paper and it kind of grew and uh and grew. And then my world in the military bounces from civilian to the military reserve to active duty you know being activated for Desert Storm, activated for Iraqi freedom a couple of times. So, those kind of things just keep bouncing me back. And then I do back to the civilian world, to the school bus world to the to the political world to the Marine Corps world.

So, those kind of things are unique to reserve. And so, I started kind of writing it as a you know something that might help a reservist or reserve his family or a military family that’s not understanding what their husband, son, brother might be going through. And so, it just grew. And then the hardest part was how do you stop the timeline? You know, where do you end it? Um, I’m a big proponent of timelines you know whether it’s in a book.

My dad taught me if I’m not 15 minutes early I’m late. So, and that’s kind of stuck with me my entire life. And then in the Marines I was in the artillery and time on target meant time on target. You didn’t miss your timelines. And and the world came to an end if you missed a timeline because we made sure everybody knew it. And so, and then I got in the school bus world and timelines were important.

(Will) Sure.

(Commissioner Caldwell) I mean you can’t just leave the kids sitting on the side of the road wondering if it’s gonna get there. So, timelines have always been important. So, that’s something that I press when I’m discussing with the staff and discussing with other commissioners. And I’m like the timelines are killing me. You know, they’re taking too long and it’s a process that that’s it’s burdensome you know. And we just have to fight through it.

(Will) Well, and that’s an exact situation kind of that you know that the public is not always privy to the rhymes and the reasons for a projects duration or extension even. But they always see that it’s still going on what’s happening, right? They so I think you know being engaged and that focus on the timelines kind of go hand in hand with just that public perception of that we’re staying on top of things and moving projects forward.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Yes. People need to see something happening you know. And when when all of it’s behind the scenes it gets really difficult. Some of it being behind the scenes is okay but we need to see something happening on the ground. And that’s something that you deal with every day. And when I travel those roads and do those visits and get around they want us you know, you can only tell them so many times it’s in the hands of the engineers.

(Will) Right.

(Commissioner Caldwell) I mean eventually they want to see it in the hand of the contractors, and they want to see people riding on better roads.

(Will) Start being moved.

(Paul) Yeah. Absolutely.

(Will) Uh, a little off topic here, but I think so, we’ve got a special session going on in Jackson today uh, any do you know any info for us on the project that’s being announced.

(Commissioner Caldwell) No inside scoop on that. Uh, you know infrastructure is an important part of economic development. We definitely are a big fan of trying to help uh economic development in Mississippi and where we can be a player and be a teammate to that effort. We’re certainly uh interested in and you know, we’re rooting them on, but I’m just not familiar with that project.

(Will) I think we’re all kind of sitting tuned to see what the announcements are today. Yeah.

(Paul) Oh yeah. So, we’ve got one more question for you, but before that I want to ask uh you know any other message that you kind of want to get out to the traveling public in the northern district about what’s going on with transportation?

(Commissioner Caldwell) You know that’s interesting you start talking about messages to the public and then there’s so many variables.

(Will) Sure.

(Commissioner Caldwell) You know, I get frustrated you know we spend a lot of money telling people don’t hit a deer when it crosses a road and that kind of frustrates me. Sometimes I think can we not get a better message out hit that deer.

(Will) I wouldn’t try.

(Commissioner Caldwell) But at the same time we do have a safety focus in what we do and we do want to make sure that our roads are safe. And that’s a lot of what the complaints are. When people say hey this intersection is dangerous, this road is too dark or this you know these stripes are not done, these reflectors aren’t done, these shoulders are washed out. They’re talking about safety as well.

(Will) Sure.

(Commissioner Caldwell) And so, we need to be able to respond. And when we’re short funded for one it’s hard and we’re sort-handed there’s another one. North Mississippi is a little unique two counties in particular Desoto and Marshall are very short-handed. But when you’re in Marshall County and you can get $17 an hour to push a two-wheeler in a warehouse an air-conditioned warehouse, not diminishing the value of pushing a two-wheeler in an air-conditioned warehouse, but I don’t pay that much. You know commissions doesn’t pay that much for our new workers. So, we can’t get anybody for $11 an hour when our neighbors are paying $17.

So, counties like Desoto and Marshall where the pay is so high uh we’re having a real trouble. And so, what happens is Benton County is taking people out of their county to help Marshall County to help Marshall County. Tate County’s taking people out of their county to help Desoto County. And so, we’re trying to find creative solutions on how do we staff our roadside help.

(Will) Kind of having to rob Peter to pay Paul as they say, yeah.

(Commissioner Caldwell) We’re definitely robbing Peter to pay Paul and it’s it’s a something that isn’t ending anytime soon. Like I said, we’re gonna try to get more creative and find better solutions and find a way to get the pay up to get out to compete. I mean we’ll never catch up because if we catch up they’ll raise theirs.

(Will) Sure.

(Commissioner Caldwell) I mean that’s a private industry.

(Will) Right.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Uh nature of the best and they’re going to always be able to trump us to some degree but they can’t trump us to $6 an hour’s worth. We got to be able to close that gap.

(Will) Competitive. Right. Yeah.

(Paul) Well, thanks for the insight. Will, let’s us finish it up with our favorite question.

(Will) The big one. The money question here. So, as you have alluded to uh multiple times. You know, you spend a lot of time on the roads, you gotta eat. We like to eat. We like to eat around here. Is there a favorite spot somewhere or hole in the wall that

(Commissioner Caldwell) You know, that’s not fair uh because some places are better for Mexican food and some are better for you know meat and three and some are better for a very greasy hamburger. So, uh, I have a hard time picking a favorite.

(Will) Okay.

(Commissioner Caldwell) you know, but the diners up and down the highway I like to stop at uh as opposed to I mean I spend enough time at the fast food joints as it is. But anytime I get a chance to stop at um Sparks you know Drive-In you know in Tishomingo County or something like that. That’s always good to be able to um stop and get that home cooking and get a little um even more than the food the personalities.

(Will) Yeah. Fellowship. Yeah.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Those kind of kind adds to the equation but it’s all over. You just gotta look. And and so, I know you want the place to go, but that’s the thing to do is to go out three or four days a week like we do and just and just keep going and keep stopping. And you end up putting on the weight. But it’s a good process and definitely uh you know people like to conjugate where the food is.

(Will) Yep.

(Commissioner Caldwell) So, where the people are is where we like to go and kind of make the connection and find out what the troubles are. And sometimes that little ole lady at the diner knows more about the road troubles than we do so.

(Will) Yeah. You’d get torn into for some of

(Commissioner Caldwell) You just have to be able to listen and then make make adjustments.

(Will) Oh yeah. What about what’s the go-to fast food? If you gotta have a quick bite you got all the options out there.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Go-to fast food for me this is going to be the old-fashioned hamburger.

(Will) Good old Macd’s, Wendy’s something like that?

(Commissioner Caldwell) Yeah. Maybe Jack’s.

(Will) Okay.

(Commissioner Caldwell) I’ll give Jack’s a prop a little bit.

(Will) I don’t know if I’ve ever had a burger from Jack’s.

(Commissioner Caldwell) The Old Jack in the Box.

(Will) Put it on the list.

(Paul) There you go.

(Will) We’ve got plenty of places to stop.

(Commissioner Caldwell) An they always got a milkshake to go with it.

(Will) You just get me there.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Yep um but I’ve got to ration my milkshakes.

(Will) It’s tough. I could eat ice cream every day.

(Commissioner Caldwell) It’s hard not to stop when you go through Walnut to stop and get a milkshake somewhere and there’s a few

(Will) I empathize.

(Paul) Absolutely.

(Will) Very much.

(Paul) Yeah. Yeah. We’ll put that all on the list and you know we’re biased but Mississippi has the best food in the world and there’s nothing better than uh mom and pop in small town Mississippi.

Um so, we’ll go ahead and wrap things up. Commissioner Caldwell, we really appreciate, we know you’re a busy guy, we really appreciate you making time for us.

(Commissioner Caldwell) Well, I appreciate you having me. I appreciate what y’all do to help you know keep the conversation alive. And I think that’s important part of what we do.

(Paul) I do appreciate it. So, we do want to thank all of our listeners out there for tuning in to The Extra Mile podcast. Remember you can watch and listen to episodes by GoMDOT.com/TheExtraMile. We want to thank our editor Drew Hall and our producer Katey Hornsby. They do a lot behind the scenes for us. Remember you can follow us on Facebook and Twitter, Instagram social media. The handle is @MississippiDOT uh remember to drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.